Age we stop improving?

[shieldg]

Hello! I was wondering, what age will we stop improving even if we train? I seen alot of retired taekwondo praticioner. They told me training only break them down, they will never improve.

 

[Kwan Jang]

When they plant me in the ground.

 

[seasoned]

This is a very relative statement because, as we age, our body and mind, the way we move and think changes. This is a natural occurrence, and a fact of life. The good news is that, what ever stage of life we are at, improvement can take place, provided we desire it. If I am 20 or 70, makes no difference, because, if I lose desire and do nothing, at that point, improvement stops, and decline rapidly happens.

 

[bluekey88]

When I stop breathing.

I may not be able to go as hard physically as I get older, but my ability to use more subtle skills and technique should keep going. The best "old"martial artists were so skillful that their lessened physicality was not much of a hindrance.

Peace,
Erik

 

[morph4me]

A you get older you may not be able to do the things you used to, so you find more effective and efficient ways of doing the same things, you become more confident and more relaxed and more subtle, and you start doing things that look fake because you do them so well that observers can't see how it's possible. The longer you train the more you realize how much there is to learn, and the more there is to learn, the more you can improve. Improvement stops when you do.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

A you get older you may not be able to do the things you used to, so you find more effective and efficient ways of doing the same things, you become more confident and more relaxed and more subtle, and you start doing things that look fake because you do them so well that observers can't see how it's possible. The longer you train the more you realize how much there is to learn, and the more there is to learn, the more you can improve. Improvement stops when you do.

Morph4me makes some excellent points. I think as you age you should become more proficient and quite a bit more efficient in what you do. Personally improvement will only stop if you stop. However some things may be harder to do as you age. Take for instance a system that revolves around power. Well as you age you probably will need to adjust and be a little more flexible as you simply will not be as strong as the young bucks. Still having said that I have personally met several gentlemen in their seventies whose efficiency in motion was outstanding so keep training and improve your movement and you should see great results.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Hello! I was wondering, what age will we stop improving even if we train? I seen alot of retired taekwondo praticioner. They told me training only break them down, they will never improve.

What age? Never. Since I believe in an afterlife, I intend to train there too.

We should never stop learning and bettering ourselves in general, not just in martial arts.

Daniel

 

[terryl965]

Ok I have been in MA for over forty years, all one needs to do is change up certain techs and keep training. My training will end when the pronounce me dead.

 

[bluekey88]

just bury me under the mats and i'll practice tripping newbies from beyond the grave.

 

[phatbway]

depends on what part of the world you live, how you treat yourself and your diet.

 

[IcemanSK]

I've heard people say similar things that the OP has heard. The idea that countless repetition can break a body down, or get boring. People quit all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons, but age doesn't have to be one of those things. Just because one can't do the same things at 60 that they could at 20 doesn't mean we should stop training.

Shuffleboard & bingo ain't my thing.

 

[bluekey88]

What about full-contact bingo?

*BINGO!*

*boot to the head*

*...ognib....*



Peace,
Erik

 

[chrispillertkd]

Hello! I was wondering, what age will we stop improving even if we train? I seen alot of retired taekwondo praticioner. They told me training only break them down, they will never improve.

The people you mention sound like they were doing a lot of heavy training but doing it incorrectly and thus damaging their body. Regardless of age, time spent training, etc. it's absolutely essential to perform the techniques correctly, warm up, cool down, etc. so you don't wear down your body through repeated injury.

As for an age when you stop improving, I don't know. My instructor is 60 and a VII dan. He is slower than he was when he was, say, 50 but that's not saying much as he can still get blinding speed out of almost every technique. He can also still do stuff like flying two directional kicks (twisting and side piercing kicks in the air), flying spiral kicks (side piercing and back piercing kicks in the air), flying multiple kicks with the same foot, etc.

His power, if anything, has increased over the last few years! I remember taking a private lesson with him maybe 18 months ago and we were executing knife-hand strikes against hand held targets. I was doing pretty good and giving the target a nice solid hit with each strike. He told me I was doing pretty good but needed to mobilize my body mass more through sine wave and hip twist and then said he'd demonstrate for me. I held the target and he executed a knife-hand striek which nearly tore my arm out of its socket. Then he proceeded to do it again. And again. And again. "More like that," was his comment. Well, when he took the target back so I could give it a go I had to switch to my left arm because my right shoulder needed a break!

Does that sound like he's not improving any more? Not to me.

Pax,

Chris

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

The people you mention sound like they were doing a lot of heavy training but doing it incorrectly and thus damaging their body. Regardless of age, time spent training, etc. it's absolutely essential to perform the techniques correctly, warm up, cool down, etc. so you don't wear down your body through repeated injury.

As for an age when you stop improving, I don't know. My instructor is 60 and a VII dan. He is slower than he was when he was, say, 50 but that's not saying much as he can still get blinding speed out of almost every technique. He can also still do stuff like flying two directional kicks (twisting and side piercing kicks in the air), flying spiral kicks (side piercing and back piercing kicks in the air), flying multiple kicks with the same foot, etc.

His power, if anything, has increased over the last few years! I remember taking a private lesson with him maybe 18 months ago and we were executing knife-hand strikes against hand held targets. I was doing pretty good and giving the target a nice solid hit with each strike. He told me I was doing pretty good but needed to mobilize my body mass more through sine wave and hip twist and then said he'd demonstrate for me. I held the target and he executed a knife-hand striek which nearly tore my arm out of its socket. Then he proceeded to do it again. And again. And again. "More like that," was his comment. Well, when he took the target back so I could give it a go I had to switch to my left arm because my right shoulder needed a break!

Does that sound like he's not improving any more? Not to me.

Pax,

Chris

You beat me too it.
I do not think there is necessarily an age when people stop improving, but rather a time when the injuries, poor training, poorly executed movements, trauma, damage done to our bodies through diet and lifestyle, start to take its toll.

Too many martial arts are taught by people that have no idea about proper biomechanics, and movement. I see too many martial artists doing flashy movements that are damaging to the human body, they are young, and resilient, but after a time it catches up. Why do you think so many martial artists who do high flashy kicking end up with hip replacements?
Why do so many old boxers have brain issues? Why do people that take trauma on their joints end up with greater instances of arthritis, and joint ailments.

There are proper ways to train, and increase your abilities, and there are improper ways. The vast majority of people (including myself) have consistently employed improper ways, and will pay the price. The key for future generations is implementing the knowledge that technology and experience is giving us now days into our traditional martial arts, and adjust the things that need to be adjusted to improve the condition of our old time practitioners.

 

[Nomad]

Young and buff only occasionally beats old and devious.

The way you train as you get older will change (fewer spinning jump kicks, etc), but your understanding of the principles should increase greatly. My instructor can apply tremendous leverage and cause accompanying levels of pain on much younger athletic types using very little force (trust me on this one). Although he can't necessarily perform all of the moves he once did (because of back and knee issues), he is very good at teaching others how to do them properly.

So it depends what you mean by "improving"

This could mean outright athleticism, it could mean technique, an understanding of the principles, how to pass on the information to others, or a number of other possible interpretations. While most of us are unlikely to keep improving athletically past a certain age, there is always room for improvement.

Of course, that doesn't apply to me, since I've decided to start aging backwards for the next decade or two a la Benjamin Button.

 

[granfire]

well, physically we might have a limit we can improve on, but that is not really an age issue. As to the body breaking down, that can also be a result from exesive training early on, not necessarily wrong but too much. many world class athletes have these issues in their later years.

fact is, our body is made to be in motion.period. we stop moving we break down.

However as a Martial Artist, there is more than the physical side to it. Mind over matter, remember?! The mental side is a big part of the game. As somebody said 'old and devious' you bring more experience to the table than a younger person, are more in sync with your mortality, have learned your limitations, etc.

I like to use my dearest friend in situations like this:

She started TKD at the tender age of 62, got her BB at 64. due to several severe issues, she found that not only did her body profit and get more flexible than she had ever imagined, but also her mind improved greatly. I mean, she was an extreme case, but she considered it therapeutic and life altering.

You gain a better understanding of the Art, the technique and all things connected, for lack of better words. That makes you more rounded and more effective. Even if you can't kick to the head anymore, or break bricks (from what I understand, a 1x12x12 pine board is about the strength of a rib, 2 of a larger bone, there is no need to use more force than that to damage a body) does not mean you are not improving.

 

[Kacey]

I'll quit improving when I stop learning; not all improvement is physical. Likewise, while I may lose physical capacity as I age, I have to wonder where I would be without the last 22 years of training, as TKD is the only form of exercise I've ever stayed with longer than a few months. It's all in your perspective and definition.

 

[suicide]

the older i get the better and more efficient i become :BSmeter:

 

[garrisons2]

Well there is a 57 yr old 5th Dan where I work out and he is cagey as heck, the principal instructors are early 20's 2nd and 3rd dans that have been working out alot longer than the 2+ yrs I've been at it, he holds his own against these 2, runs 3 - 5 miles before hand and rarely sits out. He is nearly a foot shorter than the 2 youngsters, slower, less flexible and with a shorter reach, yet he holds his own

 

[Miles]

I posted this in a different thread and since I am getting older and don't want to spend the next half hour typing this again, here is my take on the whole aging issue:

"Taekwondo should be a lifelong activity. As such, it is natural to engage in those parts of Taekwondo which correspond with one's stage in life. That is not to say one can't do all 4 parts of Taekwondo at all stages, but it is natural and healthy to emphasize certain aspects at certain times.

For example, a child needs direction and guidance. The structure of Kibon practice is appropriate for this age.

Adolescents need more activity and are aggressive. The practice of kyorugi gives them an opportunity to use this active time and dispense their aggression in a healthy manner.

Adulthood is the longest stage in one's life. It is generally where one has the time and maturity to condition the tools needed for kyukpa. It is also the time where one can start to appreciate the creativity and philosophy encased within the Poomsae.

Taekwondo is for everyone, not just the young. Olympic-style sparring is a very high-impact, high-energy activity. One's ability to spar will fade with age. However, one can continue to enjoy and train in Taekwondo their entire lives."

Keep training and enjoy the journey!