A trivial question but one I've wanted to know the answer to for years!

Tez3

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When I was a child my father would take me to the pictures (the movies) he liked war films and I always remember one where some Allied prisoners of war escaped, got hold of civvie clothes and went on the run in Germany however the American POW was caught because he was eating in a restraurant/cafe where it became very obvious he was an American from his eating habits!
Ok the question that has been stuck in my head for about 45 years now lol is why do Americans use their knife and fork differently from Europeans? We keep our knives in our right hand, forks in the left hand throughout the meal but Americans cut up their food then swap the fork to the right hand. Is there a specific reason for this, it can't be to keep a weapon hand free unless everyone is lefthanded!
Put me out of my misery please! :duh:

Does anyone actually know the film I mean as well?
 

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Prior to U.S. colonial times, the custom in England was to eat with the fork in the right hand, then transfer it to the left hand and use a knife in the right hand when needed, then set down the knife and continue using the fork back in the right hand. The key characteristic of such a method is that the knife is out of the hand entirely most of the time. A knife held in the right hand could quickly be used as a weapon, so this method removed that risk and was a goodwill gesture to show that the meal could continue in peace. It is probably of similar origin to the right-handed handshake, which was also used to show that neither party was carrying a weapon.

When America was a British colony, this method became generally accepted practice in America, as well.

Some time after U.S. independence, King George III had remarked on the barbaric origins of the custom, and decreed that at his state dinners there was no danger, so everybody should use knife and fork in a sensible way, namely keeping the knife ready in the right hand when needed, and keeping the fork in the left hand. Over time, it became the custom throughout the U.K. to eat in this manner. The additional feature of keeping the fork tines turned down was probably a florish added to emphasize the delicacy of the cuisine.

In the newly independent U.S., people were not eager to adopt customs from the U.K., so Americans continued to use the older method, and that has persisted to this day.You can find more of the history in This book.

I think it's The Great Escape, but I'm not certain-motorcycle chase with Steve McQueen sound familiar?
 
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Tez3

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Prior to U.S. colonial times, the custom in England was to eat with the fork in the right hand, then transfer it to the left hand and use a knife in the right hand when needed, then set down the knife and continue using the fork back in the right hand. The key characteristic of such a method is that the knife is out of the hand entirely most of the time. A knife held in the right hand could quickly be used as a weapon, so this method removed that risk and was a goodwill gesture to show that the meal could continue in peace. It is probably of similar origin to the right-handed handshake, which was also used to show that neither party was carrying a weapon.

When America was a British colony, this method became generally accepted practice in America, as well.

Some time after U.S. independence, King George III had remarked on the barbaric origins of the custom, and decreed that at his state dinners there was no danger, so everybody should use knife and fork in a sensible way, namely keeping the knife ready in the right hand when needed, and keeping the fork in the left hand. Over time, it became the custom throughout the U.K. to eat in this manner. The additional feature of keeping the fork tines turned down was probably a florish added to emphasize the delicacy of the cuisine.

In the newly independent U.S., people were not eager to adopt customs from the U.K., so Americans continued to use the older method, and that has persisted to this day.[

I think it's The Great Escape, but I'm not certain-motorcycle chase with Steve McQueen sound familiar?

Thank you so much! I thought there had to be a specific reason because everyone does it. I didn't know what to put to ask a search engine lol!
Ah Steve McQueen, now there was A MAN!
 

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I wasn't aware of the historical background—for which, many thanks, elder!—but I do remember having it explained to me when I was very young—in much simpler terms, of course, lol—that we transfer the fork to the right hand to show that as civilized beings, we are capable of controlling our 'animal' desire to stuff what we have on our forks immediately into our mouths, by going to the unnecessary trouble of transferring the fork to the 'proper' (i.e., right) hand. The idea was, culture trumps nature—we put in the extra step to show that we're capable of postponing gratification in a way that other living things are not. Very Levi-Straussian!
 

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I can't beleive somebody actualyl had an answer for that question!!!

After I lived in the UK for a few years, I adopted the knife&fork method. Much more practical, and with teenagers in the house, you never know when you might need a knife.
 

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I really never thought about it much, but I do switch hands a lot. You mean other people don't?!? Weird?

Man, I really need to visit England.
 

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I can't beleive somebody actualyl had an answer for that question!!!

After I lived in the UK for a few years, I adopted the knife&fork method. Much more practical, and with teenagers in the house, you never know when you might need a knife.
Somewhere I read something about makeing an impression during interviews or something like that by eating "European style". And I just decided it was easier and made more sense to cut, then eat, without switching the knife...
 

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All I know is that I'm right-handed and it feels weird to transfer food to my mouth with my left hand.
 
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Tez3

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When I was a child table etiquette was considered important and when you finished your meal the knife and fork had to be put on the plate together north and south on the plate to show you were finished! it was also important which way you held your knife! "common" people held it like a pen while refined people held the handle with the first finger along the top of the knife, thumb on one side, second finger on the other and the knife handle resting in the palm.
I think these days children rarely eat at a table and many never use cutlery anyway! thanks MacDs! I think many people now just use forks to cut and eat their food with.
 

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When I was a child table etiquette was considered important and when you finished your meal the knife and fork had to be put on the plate together north and south on the plate to show you were finished! it was also important which way you held your knife! "common" people held it like a pen while refined people held the handle with the first finger along the top of the knife, thumb on one side, second finger on the other and the knife handle resting in the palm.

We're products of a "much more refined age," Tez. :lol:

Actually, I had to take etiquette classes-including dancing, etc., etc., as a small child-I'm the victim of a classical education: greek, latin, etc., etc., and table etiquette has always been important to my family, though not always practiced: eating ribs and corn on the cob with a knife and fork? That's just plain silly!

Interestingly, I stopped transferring the fork a long time ago, for some reason, and keep the knife in my right hand.....


DavidCC said:
I can't beleive somebody actualyl had an answer for that question!!!

Yeah, that's me-a JEOPARDY! contestant. I know a lot of **** about nothing...:lol:
 
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Tez3

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I really never thought about it much, but I do switch hands a lot. You mean other people don't?!? Weird?

Man, I really need to visit England.

Do come over, see if you can make it officially! next year if everything goes right, I'm going to organise a Services MMA competition, I'll invite you as a judge and you can stay at one of the messes here. You can cadge a flight I'm sure lol or the RAF fly from Washington every so often.
 
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Tez3

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ummm...

I cut with my left and hold my fork in the right and don't swap anything around.

But then I can use chopsticks too :D


Oooh I so wish I could! I keep meaning to try and practice, I always thought they'd make a good weapon too, bit like skinny kubatans!
 

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Chopsticks are one of thsoe things - when you get it, you wonder how you ever didn't. But until you do, it seems impossible.
 

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ummm...

I cut with my left and hold my fork in the right and don't swap anything around.

But then I can use chopsticks too :D

You would think, being left-handed, I would do this too, but I don't. I do some times change hand to eat something tricky like peas.


Tez, I don't think the film was the Great Escape because, to the best of my memory, the only person who goes into a cafe or restaurant is James Coburn's character, and he is Australian. Could have been Force Ten From Navarone (that one's got Harrison Ford).
 

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There are two main theories about why Americans eat the way they do.

One is that it was a sign of Continental sympathy during the Revolutionary war. Another is that the fork came relatively late to America and only really became common in the 19th century. Until then people tended to eat with a knife and spoon. The knife was held in the right hand. The spoon was held in the right hand. This required some juggling which continued on after the fork was widely adopted.
 
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Tez3

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There are two main theories about why Americans eat the way they do.

One is that it was a sign of Continental sympathy during the Revolutionary war. Another is that the fork came relatively late to America and only really became common in the 19th century. Until then people tended to eat with a knife and spoon. The knife was held in the right hand. The spoon was held in the right hand. This required some juggling which continued on after the fork was widely adopted.


I was watching a programme on a Tudor feast and I was surprised at them having no forks but when I looked it up it seems forks weren't around properly or used widely until the 18th century.
How strange that something so commonplace to us would have seemed strange to people, I assumed forks had been around for at least as long as knives.

The film was a black and white one, it would have been around 1962/3ish. I also remember going to see The Longest Day but am pretty sure it wasn't that film.
 

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I was watching a programme on a Tudor feast and I was surprised at them having no forks but when I looked it up it seems forks weren't around properly or used widely until the 18th century.
How strange that something so commonplace to us would have seemed strange to people, I assumed forks had been around for at least as long as knives.

The film was a black and white one, it would have been around 1962/3ish. I also remember going to see The Longest Day but am pretty sure it wasn't that film.

I think I may have seen that programme. Lots of roast meats and plenty of sugar. Surprising to see that the king usually ate alone contrary to the depictions of Henry VIII.


Interestingly, in China long ago (during the Shang Dynasty I think) they used forks. But one of the emperors at the time decided it was barbaric and that chopsticks were more refined so he outlawed forks.


Here's a list of war films set in Europe from the early '60s. Maybe its one of these:
The Guns of Navarone (1961) (setting is the Med.)
Very Important Person (1961) (very enjoyable comedy about British POWs, well worth seeing)
The Longest Day (1962)
Hell Is For Heroes (1962)
The War Lover (1962) (about American bombers crews)
The Great Escape (1963)
The Password is Courage (1963) (the story of Sergeant Major Charles Coward)
The Victors (1963) (Americans in Europe after D-day)
633 Squadron (1963) (occupied Norway)
 

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