A real practitioner or a con?

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Recently i let my friends know that i was looking for anyone who knew anything about wing chun locally and some of them are connected enough to find things out ... anywho someone by the name of jamshaid c kiyani contacted me with a friend's reference and told me to call him JC ... so i asked MR JC on the phone how exactly he came to know of me and in what context was he calling ... He said he wanted to teach me WC and that he had learnt all the forms in a year's time and that statement at the beginning made me doubt him .... upon me asking him where he got to learn them and whether there was any MA institution i had missed that was teaching WC ... He said No institution locally but he had learnt it from teachers abroad and that he was currently teaching in my very city ... so i asked him what lineage and he said moy yat ... but at this point he was already more interested in meeting up and 'testing me out'. I ofcourse couldn't help but inquire whether he had sparred before and he said every day with his students. And that was the conclusion of the summarised conversation.

I felt i needed to write this because i feel like my concern might be unrealistic and if it is you guys should tell me so ... here are the points though... and these will help me decide whether to treat this guy as a serious practitioner or a retard.

1. any serious practitioner of WC would know that one year is not nearly enough time to perfect one form let alone all of them.

2. The way the conversation went I doubt he even knew the pole and butterfly knife forms exhisted.

3. When i was searching for someone to learn wc from ... I pretty much met or talked to every MA association known to this country over the span of 4 months and i know for a fact that no one knows what WC is here in my country the people who do know are more intellectuals than martial artists ... they know it for knowings sake.

4. Worst case scenario which i think can be dismissed in this particular case but its always a good idea to consider all possibilities .... This guy is some sort of a MA enthusiast who lures unsuspecting martial artists into his trap, poisons practitioners of other arts and then after his victim dies he drinks their blood lol.

5. And perhaps more important than 4 though not as funny ... Not once did he ask me about how much i had learnt ... and certain conjectures do come to mind but i would like to know what you guys think.

Regards Lamboo

 

[wtxs]

He said he wanted to teach me WC and that he had learnt all the forms in a year's time and that statement at the beginning made me doubt him .... upon me asking him where he got to learn them and whether there was any MA institution i had missed that was teaching WC ... He said No institution locally but he had learnt it from teachers abroad and that he was currently teaching in my very city ... so i asked him what lineage and he said moy yat ... but at this point he was already more interested in meeting up and 'testing me out'. I ofcourse couldn't help but inquire whether he had sparred before and he said every day with his students. And that was the conclusion of the summarised conversation.

Any serious practitioner of WC would know that one year is not nearly enough time to perfect one form let alone all of them.

You have had gotten plenty of WC insight and advise from this forum, what do you gut feeling tell you? Can you learn all of the forms in one year? Sure you can ... provided you come across (rarely) an teacher that will do that ... or by video instruction, best you can muster are just the basic mechanical aspects of the forms.

Do to lacking of his back ground info, I'll have to assume he had no more than a coup of years of WC under his belt ... got no qualification or business of teaching anyone, sharing what he knows maybe OK ... but that can be cover in an new thread.

Go meet up with him, may get him agree to do an short video demo, we be happy to check him out for you.

The bottom line is that - let the buyers be aware!

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Well i wouldn't want to call WC a commodity and if this person is treating it as such , just a commodity, i don't want to train with him ... that being said my gut says i need to atleast go and find out ... i'm not saying i know everything about wing chun but i think i know enough to understand his intentions upon meeting him. Bah i'm hyper critical sometimes though.

 

[Nabakatsu]

Go find out, be mentally prepared for anything, but hold on to nothing. What happens, happens, best of luck to you sir

 

[zepedawingchun]

By all means go see him. And if he asks you what you know, tell him you know nothing, NOTHING! ! !

Don't let him trick you into crossing hands with him only to have him beat you up or smack you around for his own gratification. As some charletons will do.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

i'm hoping the person's normal , ya know?

Nabakatsu you have a point , So does Mr.Z , well i didn't plan on telling him anything ... but if he's mocking WC, teaching people crap i'm gonna make sure i point that out to him in a subtle way ... ofcourse If that is discomforting to him and he wants a confrontation and if he's looking to smack some fool around he's gonna be in for a huge surprise ... If its confrontation he wants he will get one , no hesitation ... if it turns out to be a joke i might be the one picking the fight.

 

[mook jong man]

It's a bit hard for you because you don't know Chi Sau , that is what is generally used to test people out who make claims .

Occasionally I used to train one of my students at a public park and used to get all sorts of random people coming over who talked themselves up big time.

Well lets just say the stories didn't really match up with the information I was receiving through my arms when we made contact.

Just be careful , make sure you meet him in a public place , or you might end up in his house down in a pit with him standing over it saying " It puts the lotion in the basket "

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Love the Silence of the lambs reference Mr.M xD ... It'd be weirder if he thought he was meant to be a girl lol

I've been meditating a little to heighten my alertness and perception so i'll try to be as aware as possible. Mostly thats enough , sometimes it isn't. Will have to see.

 

[El_Nastro]

Recently i let my friends know that i was looking for anyone who knew anything about wing chun locally and some of them are connected enough to find things out ... anywho someone by the name of jamshaid c kiyani contacted me with a friend's reference and told me to call him JC ... so i asked MR JC on the phone how exactly he came to know of me and in what context was he calling ... He said he wanted to teach me WC and that he had learnt all the forms in a year's time and that statement at the beginning made me doubt him .... upon me asking him where he got to learn them and whether there was any MA institution i had missed that was teaching WC ... He said No institution locally but he had learnt it from teachers abroad and that he was currently teaching in my very city ... so i asked him what lineage and he said moy yat ... but at this point he was already more interested in meeting up and 'testing me out'. I ofcourse couldn't help but inquire whether he had sparred before and he said every day with his students. And that was the conclusion of the summarised conversation.

I felt i needed to write this because i feel like my concern might be unrealistic and if it is you guys should tell me so ... here are the points though... and these will help me decide whether to treat this guy as a serious practitioner or a retard.

1. any serious practitioner of WC would know that one year is not nearly enough time to perfect one form let alone all of them.

2. The way the conversation went I doubt he even knew the pole and butterfly knife forms exhisted.

3. When i was searching for someone to learn wc from ... I pretty much met or talked to every MA association known to this country over the span of 4 months and i know for a fact that no one knows what WC is here in my country the people who do know are more intellectuals than martial artists ... they know it for knowings sake.

4. Worst case scenario which i think can be dismissed in this particular case but its always a good idea to consider all possibilities .... This guy is some sort of a MA enthusiast who lures unsuspecting martial artists into his trap, poisons practitioners of other arts and then after his victim dies he drinks their blood lol.

5. And perhaps more important than 4 though not as funny ... Not once did he ask me about how much i had learnt ... and certain conjectures do come to mind but i would like to know what you guys think.

Regards Lamboo

Here's some of the stock answers & responses I've seen when the question of a WC instructor's legitimacy is concerned:

1. You shouldn't bring up the question. It's "trolling".

2. Let's not start a lineage-war. It's all WC, and we're all part of the same WC family. Who cares about "lineage"?

3. Don't be so disrespectful. Questioning an instructor's credentials is the most tasteless, disrespectful thing ever. Again, "trolling".

4. The only thing that matters is if his Wing Chun works for you. Of course, the only way to find that out is to give him your time, give him your attention, give him your effort and most importantly, give him your money. Only then will you know.

Asking questions like "is this guy for real?" are horrible questions to ask and say more about you than they do about him. God help you if you move beyond questions and actually conclude that he is an unqualified fraud; if you get to that point, make sure you keep it to yourself.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Here's some of the stock answers & responses I've seen when the question of a WC instructor's legitimacy is concerned:

1. You shouldn't bring up the question. It's "trolling".

2. Let's not start a lineage-war. It's all WC, and we're all part of the same WC family. Who cares about "lineage"?

3. Don't be so disrespectful. Questioning an instructor's credentials is the most tasteless, disrespectful thing ever. Again, "trolling".

4. The only thing that matters is if his Wing Chun works for you. Of course, the only way to find that out is to give him your time, give him your attention, give him your effort and most importantly, give him your money. Only then will you know.

Asking questions like "is this guy for real?" are horrible questions to ask and say more about you than they do about him. God help you if you move beyond questions and actually conclude that he is an unqualified fraud; if you get to that point, make sure you keep it to yourself.

What i was expressing was my concern in the matter... on two principal things ... I am questioning the individual's authenticity and not the authenticity of the lineage. Secondly i'm sure that if someone was going around using a lineage's name when he/she knew nothing about it would first be an insult to WC and thne to that lineage ... specially if the guy can barely hold his own in a real situation ... It wasnt meant to start a lineage war...everything has its advantages and drawbacks every small detail.

1. I have found that it is better to question things and then learn for yourself rather than be ignorant about things and start doing things wrong.

2. i would be trying to start a lineage war if i said something like "is said lineage better than this other lineage" which i have not.

An individual's authenticity comes down to two things his/her word and the results he/she produces or the effort he/she puts into something and to be honest the phone call gave me an impression that spoke otherwise and i posted here because i thought maybe it was possible to rush through everything like the guy said. Just to be sure that this guy wasn't put on some crash course of WC which i am not against nor do i support because i believe an individual should take things at his/her own pace. I hardly speak troll =p

Ofcourse i don't go around snapping at everything that seems shady... its only the important things you need to be sure of sometimes. Not that i think the guy is shady he might be a great person for all i know. Its just that the Wc aspect is really important here.

 

[wtxs]

Of course, the only way to find that out is to give him your time, give him your attention, give him your effort and most importantly, give him your money. Only then will you know.

Asking questions like "is this guy for real?" are horrible questions to ask and say more about you than they do about him. God help you if you move beyond questions and actually conclude that he is an unqualified fraud; if you get to that point, make sure you keep it to yourself.

Are you for real?

May you can afford to throw away your money, many out there have to count pocket change.

Your mindset is like advising someone to buy a used car with out having it check out ... and tell them to cross their fingers it doesn't turn out to be a lemon.

Now who is being a troll?

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Exactly ... usually i'm the first one to point the finger inwards and try and grow but if you're competing with a potato it doesn't make a difference.

Well just talked to the guy lets see how it goes, meeting him tomorrow.

 

[El_Nastro]

Are you for real?

May you can afford to throw away your money, many out there have to count pocket change.

Your mindset is like advising someone to buy a used car with out having it check out ... and tell them to cross their fingers it doesn't turn out to be a lemon.

Now who is being a troll?

Apparently my post wasn't as obviously sarcastic as I thought.

In answer to your question, "Are you for real?"...well, Iam for real, but that post was pure sarcasm.

I totally agree with your car-analogy, & I was trying to make a point.

It seems like every time someone brings up questions or concerns like these, it somehow gets turned around so that the person who's asking the questions is suddenly the bad guy, while the instructor-in-question is assumed to be beyond reproach.

Drives me crazy.

 

[El_Nastro]

What i was expressing was my concern in the matter... on two principal things ... I am questioning the individual's authenticity and not the authenticity of the lineage. Secondly i'm sure that if someone was going around using a lineage's name when he/she knew nothing about it would first be an insult to WC and thne to that lineage ... specially if the guy can barely hold his own in a real situation ... It wasnt meant to start a lineage war...everything has its advantages and drawbacks every small detail.

1. I have found that it is better to question things and then learn for yourself rather than be ignorant about things and start doing things wrong.

2. i would be trying to start a lineage war if i said something like "is said lineage better than this other lineage" which i have not.

An individual's authenticity comes down to two things his/her word and the results he/she produces or the effort he/she puts into something and to be honest the phone call gave me an impression that spoke otherwise and i posted here because i thought maybe it was possible to rush through everything like the guy said. Just to be sure that this guy wasn't put on some crash course of WC which i am not against nor do i support because i believe an individual should take things at his/her own pace. I hardly speak troll =p

Ofcourse i don't go around snapping at everything that seems shady... its only the important things you need to be sure of sometimes. Not that i think the guy is shady he might be a great person for all i know. Its just that the Wc aspect is really important here.

Dude, I totally agree with you. I was being sarcastic.

I've asked similar questions regarding dubious instructors before, and those were the types of responses I'd get.

It's really frustrating.

Respect is important, but figure that part of that is self-respect, which means not letting yourself get conned. Also, prospective students deserve respect too, and that means they should be made aware whether or not a given instructor is legit or not.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

You need to practice your sarcasm , i'm good at it , look , that was a really sarcastic post by El_nastro hehe. The important thing is to make sure you keep your sarcasm simple , that way it gets recognised as such. Jokng mate =p No worries.

 

[El_Nastro]

You need to practice your sarcasm , i'm good at it , look , that was a really sarcastic post by El_nastro hehe. The important thing is to make sure you keep your sarcasm simple , that way it gets recognised as such. Jokng mate =p No worries.

Duly noted.

Here's another one I forgot to put on the list:

Statement: "I think this guy could be a fake and/or incompetent. Here's why..."

Absurd argument: "There are different versions of Wing Chun!"

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

hahaha well now that i re read your post i think you were being sarcastic about things you had experienced personally ... so i guess thats alright but imho you went out of your way to be overly sarcastic don't take it to heart mate, as i do to be overly analytical. Anyway too much of anything is bad.

 

[wtxs]

Apparently my post wasn't as obviously sarcastic as I thought.

You need to practice your sarcasm , i'm good at it , look , that was a really sarcastic post by El_nastro hehe. The important thing is to make sure you keep your sarcasm simple , that way it gets recognised as such. Jokng mate =p No worries.

Duly noted, the smileys are there, to be used to covey those tongue-in-cheek kind of messages.

 

[El_Nastro]

hahaha well now that i re read your post i think you were being sarcastic about things you had experienced personally ... so i guess thats alright but imho you went out of your way to be overly sarcastic don't take it to heart mate, as i do to be overly analytical. Anyway too much of anything is bad.

I totally did go out of my way. I'll be much more overt next time.

All I'm saying is, when you have questions or concerns like yours, get ready to be assaulted with false humility, sanctimonious condescension, and really really bad arguments designed to make you look like the bad guy.

But on your actual question: I'd stay away from the dude. That thing about "learning the forms in a year" is enough right there. The dude's either a liar or severely deluded. Either way, don't waste your time.

 

[OzPaul]

"Haris - You need to practice your sarcasm , i'm good at it."

ROFL - and yeah i couldn't get the quote to work properly...