A question and a response that puzzled me

[terryl965]

Everybody on this board probaly knows me one way or another, that being said I have never really tried to insult or make anybody feel uncomfitable. That all changed today when I just ask a simple question what is your rank and where do you train, I was told that was inapprobiate to ask someone. I guess I am getting old when it is wrong to ask that question, has this ever happen to you at anytime? I guess I do not see this as a secret society when rank is involved.

 

[ETinCYQX]

It seems like a fair enough question to me, but I was never one to concern myself with learning etiquette until the Grandmasters were visiting.

FWIW I've never heard of that question being taboo.

 

[Steve]

That's not an innappropriate question where Martial Arts is concerned. If someone is defensive about being asked that, I'd wonder.

 

[Blindside]

I think people are used to anonymity on the internet, and somehow directly asking about individuals is perceived as being too invasive of privacy. I think most of the regulars on this board are pretty comfortable about having their identities being public, seeing as we tend to link back to our own schools and whatnot, but on some other boards I don't seek to publish my name or background.

edit: Is the question for online forums or in real life? If it is in real life I might ask rank of a prospective instructor and certainly feel comfortable asking about lineage, but as a peer to peer I don't ask, I'll figure that out on the floor.

 

[dancingalone]

Terry, maybe the backlash comes from a desire to maintain anonymity rather than anything to do with rank? The whole rank issue is probably irrelevant anyway unless the two people conversing train in the same system.

 

[puunui]

There comes a point where we don't speak about rank. When I am interacting with seniors, I never ask them what their rank is, nor do they ask me. Instead, we evaluate each other by "noonchi". Low ranked people evaluate others by what rank they have; in much the same way that lower paid people judge others by how much one makes per hour. However, Doctors, business men and other highly paid professionals don't really think in those terms; how much one makes per hour becomes almost irrelevant.

 

[terryl965]

Well I will just add this, if I am at a table with other BB's I know who and what rank they are. It is called knowing what one needs to know before sitting down with people. I have been ask by so many people and I almost always say I am just a student of TKD. Rank should and does not hold alot of what a call a true Martial Artist but instead rank is what is brought and sold to sometimes the highest bidder. Like I said I have never thought that it was inapprobiate to ask and was never tought that over my years. Maybe it is just me and the people I choose to be associated with.

 

[Empty Hands]

However, Doctors, business men and other highly paid professionals don't really think in those terms; how much one makes per hour becomes almost irrelevant.

Clearly you don't know very many highly paid professionals.

 

[jks9199]

Seems like it depends entirely on the context and situation. If you walk up to a stranger at the bus stop who's got nothing to suggest martial arts training and ask 'em... yeah, it's a little out of line. Someone making claims or pronouncements here on MT? Sure, it's a reasonable question. They can answer or not, and in as much detail as they choose.

 

[granfire]

considering that many sub fractions of the arts do have the rank right there on the belt I would consider it funny not to talk about it.

I am not forth coming with my instructor's name, but that is a matter not a secret, just not something I volunteer.(I am private and my instructor even more...)

 

[puunui]

considering that many sub fractions of the arts do have the rank right there on the belt I would consider it funny not to talk about it.

I can't think of a single senior or teacher for that matter that I am associated with that has stripes on their belt. Some of their lower ranked students have stripes, but they personally don't have any.

 

[DMcHenry]

Shouldn't be taboo per say, helps you understand where someone's coming from. I can't remember the last time I asked someone their rank. If I'm interested in their background, I tend to ask how long they've been training. Speaking with or training with them I get a feel for their skills and abilities. Rank is so subjective and varies so greatly from art to art, school to school. I've never found it a good measuring stick anyway. Experience is a better gauge.

I was at a party full of martial artists this weekend. I believe they mostly knew each other, I simply introduced myself as Dennis. The host (a master in several arts) told me they were local school owners, some students. I was never asked my rank, but I believe the host told them when introducing me. I never asked them, wasn’t a need to. We had fun, general discussions and some MA related talk, but we were all there to party and have a good time.

May depend on the situation, some may want to remain anonymous, others don’t want to sway opinions by the level (or lack of) their rank. Keeps us all discussing on a more even playing field with everyone feeling they have an equally valid view and able to contribute.

I have known some that sure sounded extremely experienced and knowledgeable, only to find out high rank claims and being a teenager completely killed any positive opinion I had of him, especially after seeing him perform. Rank, age and experience should coincide, but through the Internet keyboard any persona can be created to hide behind.

I don't think there's anything to be worried about.

Mac

 

[bluewaveschool]

I'm open with other MA people about my rank. My instructor I don't mention because he is no longer living. But as to where I train, I'll tell anyone. I don't see the taboo between MA people.

 

[granfire]

I can't think of a single senior or teacher for that matter that I am associated with that has stripes on their belt. Some of their lower ranked students have stripes, but they personally don't have any.

I am puzzled by your statement.

 

[Steve]

Maybe in addition to context, the style also matters. I was a purple belt in a stand up style and was very reluctant to discuss it. I'm very proud of my purple belt in jiu jitsu and consider it to be a real accomplishment.

 

[puunui]

I am puzzled by your statement.

Well, I actually asked a couple of instructors why they gave stripes on the belts of their students. They said that it was a marketing thing, that students need to feel that they are progressing and seeing stripes on their belt helps them with that. But they didn't feel the need to have stripes on their own belt.

Similarly, at the Kukkiwon Instructor Course I attended many of the participants had many patches and embroidery on their doboks, in addition to belts covered with numerous stripes and fancy embroidery. I was wearing a plain dobok. The instructor leading our course got very upset at the class and said that we looked like a bunch of children with our patch covered dobok, that starting from tomorrow, everyone needed to show up in a plain white uniform. He said that children needed all of that stuff to motivate them, but adult instructors should not.

And so it went from there, the continual shock and horror of the class participants. You should have seen the reactions of some of my classmates when they were asked to do short narrow stances in their poomsae. This was almost ten years ago, and hopefully things have changed since then.

 

[DMcHenry]

I am puzzled by your statement.

Same with me, most all those I'm associated with no one over 3rd degree has stripes on their belts, just the 1st-3rd dans.

Mac

 

[puunui]

Same with me, most all those I'm associated with no one over 3rd degree has stripes on their belts, just the 1st-3rd dans[/.quote]


There are a lot of practitioners out there who have a lot of stripes on their belts, more than three. usually their dobok are also decked out like a christmas tree as well. I tend towards a plain patchless uniform. I have my name embroidered on one side of my belt in hangul and the name of my school and association in hangul on the other. but i don't have any stripes embroidered on my belt and none of my dan holder students do either.

Historically, names were written on belts and dobok because the students would leave their uniforms and belts at the dojang, and it was a way of knowing which one was yours. no one had stripes or anything other than their names on their stuff. It is the same way that high school kids write their names on their PE clothes, so it doesn't get lost in the locker room. In Korea, I saw many high school age students wearing their high school uniforms, and they all had their names embroidered on the front pocket.

I want to say that it was Sensei Mas Oyama who popularized the idea of putting stripes on one's belt. He was the first senior who I think did that and it was prominently displaying in his books. Him and Ed Parker.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Same with me, most all those I'm associated with no one over 3rd degree has stripes on their belts, just the 1st-3rd dans[/.quote]


There are a lot of practitioners out there who have a lot of stripes on their belts, more than three. usually their dobok are also decked out like a christmas tree as well. I tend towards a plain patchless uniform. I have my name embroidered on one side of my belt in hangul and the name of my school and association in hangul on the other. but i don't have any stripes embroidered on my belt and none of my dan holder students do either.

Historically, names were written on belts and dobok because the students would leave their uniforms and belts at the dojang, and it was a way of knowing which one was yours. no one had stripes or anything other than their names on their stuff. It is the same way that high school kids write their names on their PE clothes, so it doesn't get lost in the locker room. In Korea, I saw many high school age students wearing their high school uniforms, and they all had their names embroidered on the front pocket.

I want to say that it was Sensei Mas Oyama who popularized the idea of putting stripes on one's belt. He was the first senior who I think did that and it was prominently displaying in his books. Him and Ed Parker.

Stripes can be useful, I train at a very large club (thousands of members) and we are always encouraged to ask our seniors for advice and they are more than happy to help. At black belt class, club camps, demos etc we can have hundreds of students assembled together (most of which you've never seen/met in your life) and without stripes it would be hard to know who is what rank. I am a first dan and was recently at a club training day and wanted some advice on a form and being able to identify quickly and easily who was what rank made life a lot easier.

 

[Cirdan]

If someone is interested in where and how I train, I will be happy to inform them. When someone ask about rank it is often those things they really want to know about.