51% of Americans have yet to evolve.

[hardheadjarhead]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005...l?CMP=OTC-RSSFeed&source=RSS&attr=HOME_965223


Regards,



Steve

 

[michaeledward]

This is just scary data, isn't it?

I don't know why those with a belief in a higher power can't come to terms with the ideas contained within science. Most scientists believe in a higher spiritual force.

I am an Athiest at this point in my life. All of the higher power stuff really seems to magical for me to embrace. I did spend a significant portion of my involved in religious organizations. And most of those didn't have a problem (or so it seemed) with science.

And while I don't believe it, I kinda fancy the way God is described in the RAMA books by Aurther C. Clarke. God just keeps creating universes throughout the infinite expanse of time and space. Patiently waiting for one of those infinite numbers or universes to evolve a species capable of perfect love of him. .... at least that's how I remember the description.

The RAMA God came close to describing an all powerful creator appropriate for a universe as big and wonderful as that around us. But, as I recall, God's invovlement ended when he put the universe in motion ... all since has been science.

Oh, well.

Peace be with you.

 

[heretic888]

Sounds a little bit like traditional deism, Mike, albeit with a quantum physics twist...

As for the statistics, I'm inclined to treat them with a modicum of skepticism. Some poll like this is released at least once a year, and numbers just keep changing. The last poll I saw had the literal creationists in the 30-45% margin, so you'll have to pardon my cynicism.

As for "God", I'm more of a neo-Hegelian myself.

Laterz.

 

[heretic888]

Come to think of it, neo-Hegelian's not all that descriptive...

Maybe... Evolutionary panentheist?? Postmodern nondualist?? Scientific transcendentalist??

Meh. *shrugs*

Laterz.

 

[mrhnau]

51% of Americans have yet to evolve

I'm sure I'm not the only one taking offence at the subject for your post. Part of the problem I've had with scientist has been the elitist attitude of "gee, you are an idiot if you don't agree with us". Sometimes it makes me quite sorry I'm in the field.

People have different views. Thats fine. Let them have their views. Some people won't ever agree with you regardless of the "evidence" you chose to show, the philosophers you chose to quote or naturalist you idealize. Thats fine. Move along. They have their own opinions. No need to insult them by saying they are "not evolved". There are plenty of threads out there ready to insult those people. Populate those if you must. I've lately chosen to ignore them, as I'm sure alot of people have.

anyways, my .02 for the afternoon...

MrH

 

[arnisador]

Well, the number of people who believe in modern medicine would be much larger...yet, most physicians would tell you that it's based on biology, which is based on evolution. So, there's a logical disconnect in there somewhere.

 

[Andrew Green]

Wow...

I'd be curious to see stats for other countries. I've met very few people that didn't take evolution pretty much for granted (right up there with gravity) up here... We're proud of our monkey ancestors

 

[Andrew Green]

They have their own opinions. No need to insult them by saying they are "not evolved".

Don't mean to be nitt picky (ok, yes I do) but those 51% where the ones that said they haven't evolved. Telling them they had evolved from monkeys should be the insult...

 

[michaeledward]

Part of the problem I've had with scientist has been the elitist attitude of "gee, you are an idiot if you don't agree with us". Sometimes it makes me quite sorry I'm in the field.

I am not sure that is the attitude of scientists.

I think science provides a series of tools that allow everyone to observe, measure, and review the world around them. I think science may think that someone who makes claims about the nature of the universe while not taking advantage of the tools of science is an idiot.

I'm not asking you to believe what I believe because I believe it.

I'm asking you to believe what I believe because you, yourself, can go out and replicate the 'evidence' that I have used to come to my beliefs.
​

If you don't believe my evidence - well fine (Any significantly advance technology would appear as magic).

Go and use the tools of science and produce (reproduce) the evidence for yourself. If you are unwilling to do so, because of your beliefs, you are an idiot.

By condensing the argument, we lose the logic of the argument, and open ourselves to the attacks we currently are witnessing in Pennsylvania.

 

[heretic888]

Personally, I think science is a means of acquiring and analyzing data and, as such, does not have 'feelings' or 'thoughts'.

Laterz.

 

[mrhnau]

Don't mean to be nitt picky (ok, yes I do) but those 51% where the ones that said they haven't evolved. Telling them they had evolved from monkeys should be the insult...

Not believing in something does not imply lack of knowledge in the subject. Yes, we (or at least I) know quite well what is being implied, whether or not we believe in it.

michaeledward
I'm asking you to believe what I believe because you, yourself, can go out and replicate the 'evidence' that I have used to come to my beliefs

Go and use the tools of science and produce (reproduce) the evidence for yourself. If you are unwilling to do so, because of your beliefs, you are an idiot.

Many people lack the skills to do such. Would you consider them an idiot? Lets consider some of the areas of science you would need to study just to look at to understand evolution:
biology - genetics, microbiology
biochemistry
statistics
You need to read a ton of literature in the specific fields of interests. You might require a lab to accomplish certain things (microevolution perhaps).

Where did the heavy compounds on earth come from? Perhaps you should study astrophysics to understand where these compounds come from. You might have to study comets if you believe that theory of the origin of organic matter. Of course, that had to come from somewhere, so you would need to study exobiology too.

The simple point being, you CAN'T go and simply replicate everything that has been done. All of these things have been studied by a multitude of people in the past, some coming to differing conclusions. Claiming someone is an idiot because they refuse to take 95% of their life to obtain a host of PhD's is ridiculous. Not everyone has the aptitude, desire or time to do such.

In your defense, you did say "because of their beliefs". My point is that regardless of their belief systems, it is still quite impractical to claim something like this. I'm quite sure you have not verified every piece of evidence youself. Could I safely say that you take some things *gasp* on faith? Do you honestly believe everything you have read is true? I can provide you with some fine examples of published lies if you like.

I think science may think that someone who makes claims about the nature of the universe while not taking advantage of the tools of science is an idiot.

Do you think science can explain absolutely everything in the universe? Is everything truly detectable? Is there a God detector? How about string theory? In theory, the "strings" are undetetable. How much of physics is assumption? The fact is, nothing is completely measureable. Well, perhaps a better phrase would be perfectly measurable (think quantum physics, uncertainty).

Gotta scoot, I'll try to finish this after I get back. Best friend defending his thesis at 10:00 *gasp* I have scientific friends! oh my gosh! Call the police? ;-)

MrH

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Only 45% believe humans evolved! I find that truly fascinating!
I would also be interested in other countries data concerning this
particularly a comparison between Europe and America!

Brian R. VanCise

 

[hardheadjarhead]

The thread's title is quite accurate, given the nature of the article. I stole the tag line from the web site that linked to the piece.

As for the accuracy of the figures...it is a small sample. Still, assuming only HALF of the people reported as creationists really are, that is still a frightening percentage.

Its all so silly, anyway. Its a simple FACT that in the beginning at a place called Niflheim river ice melted, forming Ymir the primeval giant and the cow Audhumla. While Ymir slept his under arm sweat begat two frost giants, one male one female, while his two legs begat another male.






Regards,


Steve

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Steve,

If only everyone could really figure out how simple
it is!

Brian R. VanCise

 

[arnisador]

Its all so silly, anyway. Its a simple FACT that in the beginning at a place called Niflheim river ice melted, forming Ymir the primeval giant and the cow Audhumla. While Ymir slept his under arm sweat begat two frost giants, one male one female, while his two legs begat another male.

More details here:
http://www.pantheon.org/areas/mythology/europe/norse/articles.html

Isn't it our Holy Day today? Shouldn't people be bringing us beer and viands?

On topic, I do believe that many people don't believe in evolution. My colleagues who teach the subject at the college level get frequent pressure from students to admit it's "just a theory" and find it stressful to have cover the subject.

 

[mrhnau]

On topic, I do believe that many people don't believe in evolution. My colleagues who teach the subject at the college level get frequent pressure from students to admit it's "just a theory" and find it stressful to have cover the subject.

The subject of the "theory" of evolution has been gone over in different threads...

if I may:

:deadhorse

MrH

 

[The Kai]

How do you wonder people will ever explain the DNA simularities between the apes and humans. Can you expalin my primal response to the funky, tribal drumming of adam and the ants?

 

[arnisador]

I don't mean to restart that, mrhnau. Just anecdotal observation that supports the claim that it's a wide-spread belief.

 

[mrhnau]

I don't mean to restart that, mrhnau. Just anecdotal observation that supports the claim that it's a wide-spread belief.

Noted... just wanted to use the uber-cool emoticon for once

MrH

 

[Phoenix44]

I wonder if that 51% is the same 51% who voted for Bush.