Zane & Busey in anti-american Turkish movie

[Jonathan Randall]

Hollywood has produced tons of films that were chock full of propaganda and lies in order to sway opinion in the US. Heck, the pentagon even has a program that helps pay for them. Why should it surprise us that another country would do the same? Despite the fact that these two actors are/were Americans, I don't see much difference between the propaganda filled, wholley inaccurate and ultimately racist films our country has made in the past. Par for the course, I say...

True, but there is something particularly disgusting about American actors (who have benefitted from the U.S. and its opportunities), playing such parts in foreign films. Apparently Bussey plays a part directly from the anti-semitic "Protocols of the Elders of Zion". There are some things it is better to die than to do. For this man to play a part in the incitement to violence against the jews in the same way that the Nazis and their propaganda did is extremely nauseating. For both of them to star in such a movie is worse, IMO, than Tokyo Rose's part as a hostage of the Imperial Japanese during WW2. They did this simply for the money...

 

[sgtmac_46]

True, but there is something particularly disgusting about American actors (who have benefitted from the U.S. and its opportunities), playing such parts in foreign films. Apparently Bussey plays a part directly from the anti-semitic "Protocols of the Elders of Zion". There are some things it is better to die than to do. For this man to play a part in the incitement to violence against the jews in the same way that the Nazis and their propaganda did is extremely nauseating. For both of them to star in such a movie is worse, IMO, than Tokyo Rose's part as a hostage of the Imperial Japanese during WW2. They did this simply for the money...

I'm glad you brought up Tokyo Rose, it's a good analogy. At least Rose wasn't doing it, presumably, for the money.

 

[Makalakumu]

I have a serious question...is there a way to just chalk this up as a peice of art and let it be? Sure, I've been offended by some peices of art in the past. Hell, the most offensive peice I've ever seen was a panorama of thirteen aborted fetus' nailed to crosses. Also, it is inciteful to note that other peices of art have gotten people killed.

I agree that this movie is tasteless, irresponsible and bigotted, but maybe that was the point and they made it to piss people off. Art sometimes is like that.

 

[Brother John]

I have a serious question...is there a way to just chalk this up as a peice of art and let it be? Sure, I've been offended by some peices of art in the past. Hell, the most offensive peice I've ever seen was a panorama of thirteen aborted fetus' nailed to crosses. Also, it is inciteful to note that other peices of art have gotten people killed.

I agree that this movie is tasteless, irresponsible and bigotted, but maybe that was the point and they made it to piss people off. Art sometimes is like that.

It all depends on how you see or define 'art' I guess.
Besides, something being "just art" can still be irresponsible and hateful and downright wrong. If something offends me, I say so, I say why and then I do whatever is in my power to act from that basis. In this case, very simple.... I lost any shred of respect for these two actors, I feel free to explain why I think what they did is terribly Wrong and then simply don't put my money and time toward anything they do or have done.

No one is getting killed, I'm not saying charges should be leveled on them or a punishment enacted.

Your Brother
John

 

[Makalakumu]

It all depends on how you see or define 'art' I guess.
Besides, something being "just art" can still be irresponsible and hateful and downright wrong. If something offends me, I say so, I say why and then I do whatever is in my power to act from that basis. In this case, very simple.... I lost any shred of respect for these two actors, I feel free to explain why I think what they did is terribly Wrong and then simply don't put my money and time toward anything they do or have done.

No one is getting killed, I'm not saying charges should be leveled on them or a punishment enacted.

Your Brother
John

"Art" like this is meant to provoke people. The very worst thing anyone could have done would have been to ignore it. Look at how we talk about it. It affected us.

 

[Brother John]

"Art" like this is meant to provoke people. The very worst thing anyone could have done would have been to ignore it. Look at how we talk about it. It affected us.

I know where you are coming from, but maybe we don't see it eye to eye.
It accomplished it's intended purpose on me, it did provoke & effect me....and I'm not ignoring it.
What did it provoke in me? Provocation is invitation to a response, and my response is

I lost any shred of respect for these two actors, I feel free to explain why I think what they did is terribly Wrong and then simply don't put my money and time toward anything they do or have done.

Your Brother
John

 

[Don Roley]

"Art" like this is meant to provoke people. The very worst thing anyone could have done would have been to ignore it. Look at how we talk about it. It affected us.

We were not the target audience. This movie is being made and will be viewed in Turkey.

We can ignore it all we want. It will still help deepen a very strong movement of anti-semitism and anti- Americanism in the Middle East. This movie won't be released in the US. So how would people in the US do anything by ignoring it?

This thing is about as much like "art" as "The Triumph of the Will" was.

And these two losers either don't care about the harm they are doing, actively hate Jews or are so stupid that they could not figure out that they were doing a lot of harm.

 

[Makalakumu]

We were not the target audience. This movie is being made and will be viewed in Turkey.

The fact that it was made in Turkey doesn't necessarily mean that Turks are the only intended audience.

We can ignore it all we want. It will still help deepen a very strong movement of anti-semitism and anti- Americanism in the Middle East. This movie won't be released in the US. So how would people in the US do anything by ignoring it?

If enough people talk about it like we are doing...it might very well get exposure in the US...which would cause more people to talk about it...and get pissed...and then others have to see what all of the controversy is about...

This thing is about as much like "art" as "The Triumph of the Will" was.

Propaganda can be a form of art. Hollywood has certainly perfected it over the years...

And these two losers either don't care about the harm they are doing, actively hate Jews or are so stupid that they could not figure out that they were doing a lot of harm.

Have you seen the musical Sweeney Todd? There is lots of offensive material in there. Yet, the actors in it may not hold the beliefs of the people they portray. Why would these two guys be any different? Also, I don't think its a jump in logic to think that these two actors were thinking about this movie for the impact that it would have artistically. From what I have heard of Gary Busey, he is really really weird like that.

 

[Brother John]

The fact that it was made in Turkey doesn't necessarily mean that Turks are the only intended audience.

Made in Turkey isn't the important part.
RELEASED in Turkey means it Was their target audience.
The target is where it is released, not made.

small point...

Your Brother
John

 

[Makalakumu]

Made in Turkey isn't the important part.
RELEASED in Turkey means it Was their target audience.
The target is where it is released, not made.

small point...

Your Brother
John

You and Don are probably right, however, I would like to point out that with digital media, the target can be the internet...which is global. I would bet that this movie will be available on the net soon.

 

[Phoenix44]

Well, there's two more actors to add to my "No View" list.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I have a serious question...is there a way to just chalk this up as a peice of art and let it be? Sure, I've been offended by some peices of art in the past. Hell, the most offensive peice I've ever seen was a panorama of thirteen aborted fetus' nailed to crosses. Also, it is inciteful to note that other peices of art have gotten people killed.

I agree that this movie is tasteless, irresponsible and bigotted, but maybe that was the point and they made it to piss people off. Art sometimes is like that.

Could we simply chalk up Nazi propaganda films as art? At the risk of invoking Godwin's laws, I think it might be an appropriate analogy in this instance (especially given the fact that Bussey clearly plays a Jew in the same vein the Nazis would have identified with).

I'm not saying we can't chalk it up as art.....we could say the same about Triumph of the Will....it's an astounding and breathtaking film....with 60 years removed from what it and other films really meant.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Could we simply chalk up Nazi propaganda films as art? At the risk of invoking Godwin's laws, I think it might be an appropriate analogy in this instance (especially given the fact that Bussey clearly plays a Jew in the same vein the Nazis would have identified with).

I'm not saying we can't chalk it up as art.....we could say the same about Triumph of the Will....it's an astounding and breathtaking film....with 60 years removed from what it and other films really meant.

I had sworn off posting in the Study after ending up in the "Great Debate"; however, your points are SO accurate that I had to respond.

This (what the actor's did) may not be a crime in the legal sense, but in the moral sense it is ABSOLUTELY equivalent, IMO, to what Leni Reifenstall and her like did for the Nazis.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I had sworn off posting in the Study after ending up in the "Great Debate"; however, your points are SO accurate that I had to respond.

This (what the actor's did) may not be a crime in the legal sense, but in the moral sense it is ABSOLUTELY equivalent, IMO, to what Leni Reifenstall and her like did for the Nazis.

What's further, Leni Reifenstahl had more talent in her little finger than these two clowns have in their collective bodies, as a film maker. Sadly, it is Triumph of the Will's power, and Leni's shear monumental talent, that the make it all the more, for lack of a better term, 'evil'. If it weren't so beautiful, it could never be so base.

"Being sorry isn't nearly enough, but I can't tear myself apart or destroy myself. It's so terrible. I've suffered anyway for over half a century and it will never end, until I die. It's such an incredible burden, that to say 'sorry'... it's inadequate, it expresses too little." Leni Reifenstahl

 

[Jonathan Randall]

What's further, Leni Reifenstahl had more talent in her little finger than these two clowns have in their collective bodies, as a film maker. Sadly, it is Triumph of the Will's power, and Leni's shear monumental talent, that the make it all the more, for lack of a better term, 'evil'. If it weren't so beautiful, it could never be so base.

True, and it disturbs me greatly as an artist that those of similiar or greater talents would use those gifts in the service of evil. I've read William Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" more than once and each reading leaves me sadder and more puzzled. Prostitution is too SOFT a word to describe what these two "things" did.

 

[Carol]

We could chalk the film up as a piece of art, but that does not change it's power.

I spent four years pouring over the bebop of Charlie Parker and the counterpoint of Mozart. I could hum a chord scale that can go against a D7sharp9flat13.

Yet, I can't explain why a blues guitarist can tell me a story and move me to tears just by playing a single note. Nor can I describe the feeling I get when listening to Peter Gabriel's "In Your Eyes". I can't even tell you why that song continues to captivate me, even though I first heard it in high school 20 years ago. The art is just too powerful.

Art has been blamed for suicide. Art has been credited for saving lives. Art has inspired. Art has enraged. Art has brought people together. Art is repsonsible for the debate over whether Art imiitates Life or Life imitates Art.

These two used the power of art to profit from the ridicule of our country and her fallen.

I dare them to spend one hour at Walter Reed, to look those folks in the eye and tell them why they made the film.

 

[sgtmac_46]

True, and it disturbs me greatly as an artist that those of similiar or greater talents would use those gifts in the service of evil. I've read William Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" more than once and each reading leaves me sadder and more puzzled. Prostitution is too SOFT a word to describe what these two "things" did.

That something is art, in the service of something loathesome, is all the worse. A talented artist can make the most vile thing, appear beautiful to many people. It is hard to watch 'Will' without being swept away by a sheer emotional response. That is the power of art. It is never about reason or rationality, it is about a sheer emotional response.....put simply, it's about passion. As such, and artist can't simply say 'People are reasonable, they know it's art' and be excused.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Traitors. IM (Angry)O.

What IS it with ****ing actors???????????

 

[Kenpoist]

Billy “I’m Zainy” Zane –he is a real Titanic xxxhole and Gary “mentally-ill, all hyped up on crack” Busey. What a pair of IDIOTS!

Wouldn’t worry about these two bozo’s too much – with any luck they will both end up in a TURKISH prison. You think they might want Uncle Sam’s help if that happened?