Zacarias Moussaoui and Capitol Punishment

[michaeledward]

He pleaded guilty to terror charges that's why he faces the death penalty. Ad-hominum? I thought that only applied in a debate or arguement. It was just an observation, as I suspect there will be more terrorist supporters coming out of the woodwork as we get closer to the decision.

Terrorist supporters

Ad-hominem

Absolutely.

 

[Makalakumu]

While I am the first to admit that criminal screwups were made that hindered the pre-9/11 investigations that may have prevented the attacks, I also realize that the terrorists only had to get lucky once to succeed. They launched attack after attack upon America. MOST were thwarted. This one, tragically, was not. Given the political environment and lack of political will pre-9/11 to go after the terrorists at the source (Taliban Afghanistan), it was like standing still trying to block and dodge punches from a determined attacker - no matter how good you are, without the allowance to go after the aggressor with counterstrikes, the attacker WILL eventually get something through.

It could also be said that this was like a person desperately trying to defend themselves, but the've had another person tie their hands and sink their feet in concrete.

Moussaoui may have been an incompetent hack, but he COULD have stopped an attack that killed three thousand of our countryman and the very fact that he had foreknowledge of the attack and did nothing, is death penalty material in and of itself, IMO. Intelligence failures on our part are irrelevant.

I'm not so sure that even an admission would have done much. Given that Federal Agencies knew everything that Moussaoui would say...and even knew that Moussaoui was on the periphery of the plot. This was all presented in the defenses case. Intelligence failure really doesn't describe this situation. Your description of this thing as criminal screwups comes closer.

I had an E-friend on an artist's forum who was a Navy artist stationed at the Pentagon who wrote me to thank me on 9/10 for some tips I gave him. On 9/11 I logged on to find that he was missing from the attack on the Pentagon and presumed dead. I have no sympathy for anybody who knew of or planned these atrocities.

This was the government's case. Page after page, picture after picture, recorded scream after recorded scream. It was entirely emotional and entirely designed to take the juries eye off of the government and put it on the events of 9/11. It worked. Moussaoui will probably be executed and that death will be an emotional/feel good moment for everyone who is hurting and scared by these attacks.

One comes to the conclusion, after looking at the defenses and prosecutors arguments, that this is an execution that has less to do with justice and more to do with politics.

 

[michaeledward]

Moussaoui may have been an incompetent hack, but he COULD have stopped an attack that killed three thousand of our countryman and the very fact that he had foreknowledge of the attack and did nothing, is death penalty material in and of itself, IMO. Intelligence failures on our part are irrelevant.

Assuming for the minute that Mr. Moussaoui said to Special Agent Rowley ... "we are going to fly planes into your buildings" ... in order to prevent attacks, the FBI would have had to respond to the field reports from S.A. Rowley. Which would then have to trigger a series of events to prevent an attack. The FBI would have to speak to CIA. Together they would have to notify FAA. FAA would need to alert Airports. Airport Security would have to be heightened.

I think there is weak evidence to show that an appropriate sequence of security measures would take place based on a possible report from Mr. Moussaoui. The FBI home office did not respond to Special Agent Rowley's field reports prior to the attack. And we can consider statements by people in the field, such as Richard Clarke, who has said the 'system was blinking red' throughout the summer, and no increased security measures were implimented.



But, I am curious what your stand is, based on this assertion, concerning President Bush, who also had foreknowledge that an attack was likely to occur.

Approximately one month prior to the September 11 attack, the President received a briefing titled 'Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the US.' Let's go to the document.

US. Bin Laden implied in U.S. television interviews in 1997 and 1998 that his followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef and "bring the fighting to America.

Al Qaeda members -- including some who are U.S. citizens -- have resided in or traveled to the U.S. for years

A clandestine source said in 1998 that a bin Laden cell in New York was recruiting Muslim-American youth

We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a ---- service in 1998 saying that Bin Laden wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft . . .

Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

 

[michaeledward]

Moussaoui will probably be executed and that death will be an emotional/feel good moment for everyone who is hurting and scared by these attacks.

If Mr. Moussaoui is executed, it will not be feel good to me.

Instead, it will be the ringing of a death knell for the rule of law. It will be a confirmation that we are in the decline of the American era. We will have willfully surrended the Constitution to fear.

It will be a sad day.

 

[Makalakumu]

If Mr. Moussaoui is executed, it will not be feel good to me.

Instead, it will be the ringing of a death knell for the rule of law. It will be a confirmation that we are in the decline of the American era. We will have willfully surrended the Constitution to fear.

It will be a sad day.

I agree. However, I think that bell has been ringing for a long time.

 

[Don Roley]

So, while UpknorthKyosa tries to convince us that the goverment knew everything they needed to stop 911, but didn't, Michealward is trying to convince us that even if Moussaoui confessed they could not have stopped the attacks.

Neither openly disagrees with the other on those points, but both agree that the death penalty, chosen by a jury trial, dealt onto a self confessed participant in a plot that killed thousands of Americans- will be a great tragedy.