Yuk Ro Hyungs

[Makalakumu]

So, does anyone know what forms SBD is requireing at the gup level now? I imagine the white and orange belt forms won't change much. But what about green, red, and cho dan? With not Okinawan forms, that takes a big chunk out of the curriculum I learned way back when.

 

[Moo D]

I have not heard from any of the SBD people, hence not sure what their curriculum looks like at present if indeed they have removed any the Japanese influence.

It seems a shame as the Okinawon Hyungs were and still are a fundamental part of TSD and as SBD is really TSD?? then they still have a place, if that makes sense??

Regards

 

[Moo D]

Thankyou Master Clay,

I have just ordered DJN Hwang's Tang Soo Do Soo Bahk Do Volume 2, after your post.
many Thanks,

 

[Moo D]

Thanks to all on this thread for the information you have given. I have just received the copy of DJN Hwang's Volume 2 TSD/SBD and within the 3 Yuk Ro Hyungs and their philosophy.

I can now see that DJN Hwang translated the MYDBTJ into the Yuk Ro Hyungs and introduced them in the late 1980's.

Many thanks for all those who participated in this thread.

Regards,

 

[dosandojang]

Yes, from what we all can gather...He made them up from how HE saw the MYDBTJ. But I wonder why the book only has 3 Yuk Ros, when there really are 6? (Yuk Ro means: 6 paths, and there are 6 Yuk Ros Hyungs, just as there are 7 Chil Sung Hyungs. Chil Sung means: 7 Stars)

 

[Moo D]

It seems that DJN Hwang was originally going to release 5 volumes of Tang Soo Do Soo Bahk Do. For some reason only 2 volumes were ever released, Tang Soo Do (Soo Bahk Do) Volume 1 in 1978 and Volume 2 in 1992, and one Korean release of Soo Bahk Do Dae Keam in 1970. It Seems that the english Volume 1 is the translation of the Dae Keam released in 1970.

I would suppose that the 3 remaining Yuk Ro Hyungs - Sah Dan, Oh Dan and Yuk Dan, as well as the 7 Chil Sung Hyungs would have appeared somewhere in the remaining 3 volumes??

It is a shame that a more comprehensive record of the Tang Soo Do Hyungs is not available in written form as devised by Hwang Kee.

Any thoughts?? :asian:

 

[dosandojang]

Good guess Moo Do. Maybe that is the answer I am looking for. Anyone else got a theory???

 

[Shinzu]

perhaps you could find one of hwang kee's books. they might be of some use. i am not totally sure, but that might be a good place to start.

 

[dosandojang]

I have one, but it does not have the answers we are looking for. Warrior-Scholar has some GREAT TSD MINDS there, so I will ask over there! Thanks!

 

[Shinzu]

I have one, but it does not have the answers we are looking for. Warrior-Scholar has some GREAT TSD MINDS there, so I will ask over there! Thanks!

yes that is an excellent source also. thanks for bringing it to this thread!

here is that link:

http://www.warrior-scholar.com/

 

[Moo D]

I have both volumes of Hwang Kee's work on Tang Soo do, the second volume has the first 3 Yuk ro hyungs in and a brief description of the origin of the hyungs and their introduction in the Moo Duk Kwan syllabus. Are there any other resources for Yuk Ro Sah dan, oh dan and yuk dan???

Regards,

 

[TSDMDK16485]

i think eventully the us soo bahk do federation is going to tak all of the pyung ahn hyungs out as well as naihanchi hyungs and replace them with chil-sung and yuk-ro and hwa-sun,tae kuk kwan,so rim jang kwan as well as the last series of hyungs that hwang kee created. i forgot the name of those hyungs i'll look them up and get the name of themm for you i think there were 10 of them in the series..

 

[MBuzzy]

I'd like to reinvigorate this thread, if possible.

I have also started learning the Yuk Ro Hyungs and I'm curious about what your thoughts on the applications and purpoes of Yuk Ro Hyung is? Also, how you would specifically evaluate a Yuk Ro Hyung. I have learned Yuk Ro Cho Dan, that was referenced earlier, which is a slower, more controlled form.

 

[Makalakumu]

There are lots of interesting applications in Yuk Ro Cho Dan aka Du Moon. I can only talk about this one, however, because it is the only one of the sequence I learned before we left the federation.

Hwang Kee has stated that this form was a green belt form, but when I was learning it, it was being taught at the dan level. This was being done in order to introduce all of the new forms to all of the dans and, I imagine, they eventually will replace the traditional karate hyungs. This will, in effect, sever Soo Bahk Do's ties with karate and make it a separate art.

Anyway, applications of this form. Take a look at this move...

http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/hizaguruma.htm

This is performed at the beginning of each line right after the first series of noo lo mahkees. It is done on the left and right indicating that you should learn this throw on both sides.

If you have any questions on individual moves, please post them!

upnorthkyosa

 

[MBuzzy]

UpNorth,

could that movement also be intended as a simultaneous strike to the knee and chest? With the intent of breaking the knee and pushing the attacker over, rather than a throw?

Also, I'm curious on your take on the slow pushing movements following the double kwon do kong kyuk and reverse kwon do kong kyuk. There are two inhale and exhale movements, pulling both hands in toward your body and then pushing away slowly. These are the movements that I am really interested in. I've been having the discussion with my instructor and his interpretation is that they are simply pushing your attacker away from you - of course, his english isn't so good sometimes.

 

[Makalakumu]

Could that movement also be intended as a simultaneous strike to the knee and chest? With the intent of breaking the knee and pushing the attacker over, rather than a throw?

Yes, but you want to keep your mind open and you want to think about the effectiveness of what you are describing. What is the percentage chance that YOU could pull it off. Maybe someone else or your teacher can make the application above work. I can make the one I described work. This is how we personalize our hyungs.

Also, I'm curious on your take on the slow pushing movements following the double kwon do kong kyuk and reverse kwon do kong kyuk.

In certain styles of kung fu, there are techniques called long arm strikes. You perform these by using your forearms as bludgeons with the usual target being the neck. These strikes, I have been told in the states, are called Ta ko shik. I was told that this means seizing and smashing. So what you are doing with these techniques is grabbing a part of your opponent and smashing them in the neck with your forearm.

This is one of the areas that you can see the kung fu influence in Yuk Ro and TSD in general.

There are two inhale and exhale movements, pulling both hands in toward your body and then pushing away slowly.

This movement can be interpreted as pushing someone away, but that is only half of the movement. The other part where you drop down and circle your hands behind you is a duel wrist release. So, the full application is a duel wrist release that pulls your uke off balance AND then comes the push (which can also be a double strike!).

Another interpretation of this move takes into account the level change of the technique. Imagine dropping under a persons guard and grabbing a single or double leg. The "push" now becomes the levering action that you would need to dump your uke on his head.

These are the movements that I am really interested in. I've been having the discussion with my instructor and his interpretation is that they are simply pushing your attacker away from you - of course, his english isn't so good sometimes.

Please keep sharing your training in this form with us. I'm very curious as to how the Koreans are doing it compared to how Americans are doing it.

 

[mattkulma]

I have often seen that movment set as a strkie to the knee and to the center of the torso. I actually just finished leaning yok ro sa dan (yang pyan).

 

[MBuzzy]

I just received Grandmaster Hwang Kee's Volume 2 of Tang Soo Do (Soo Bahk Do) Moo Duk Kwan and in his desciprtion of Yuk Ro Cho Dan, he describes this as a simultaneous strike to the center of the torso and a kick to the knee.

Although - I must say that I am on UpNorth's side on this one, the chance of actually landing a technique like that one someone and having both be successful and remaining on your feet is slim. I can see myself attempting this and ending up on my butt. So I am more inclined to believe it is more like the throw that UpNorth described.

 

[EmperorOfKentukki]

The movement is actually taken from Taekyon. It is a sweep and pushing throw. You do hook the knee...but from behind...as you push your heel palm into the chest to knock the opponent down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N-AD57tnNQ&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJLxZICmJuQ&mode=related&search=



The Emperor

 

[Makalakumu]

Thanks for those videos, Emperor. I've never actually seen taekyun before. With that being said, I could have sworn that some of those guys had cross trained in yudo. I saw some other throws being used.

Anyway, I thought taekyun only used the feet?