Yuk Ro Hyung

Discussion in 'Tang Soo Do' started by jehja43679, Apr 10, 2008.

  1. jehja43679

    jehja43679 White Belt

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    Greetings, again, everyone!

    I hope this message finds you all in great health and spirits.

    Similarly to the Chil Sung Hyung, I saw mention of the Yuk Ro Hyung in the 'Korean Karate...' thread and thought they deserved more attention.

    The Yuk Ro Hyung were, at least, conceptualized in 1957, the same year that the founder, Hwang Kee, was presented with the Moo Yei Dobo Tong Ji. The text was the motivation for two sets of hyung, the Yuk Ro (Six-Fold Path) and the Sip Dan Khum (Ten Levels of Silk). Apparently, the Sip Dan Khum hyung are not taught outside of Korea. At any rate, they won't be the topic of discussion in this thread.

    The Six-Fold Path is related to the Chil Sung Hyung in its intent of development. Where they differ is that the Chil Sung Hyung are intended to develop the artist as a person. The Yuk Ro Hyung are intended to develop the artist as a warrior.

    The Yuk Ro are described as:

    Du Mun - The Great Gate - As a martial artist, you must open your mind to information. Indeed, the gateway to the mind if often the most difficult to open, and why it is known as the Great Gate.

    Joong Jol - Cut the Middle - As a martial artist, much of the information that passes through the Great Gate will be either useful information that is obscured by fluff, pure nonsense, or perhaps, purely useful knowledge.

    Po Wol - Embrace the Moon - When you've cut through the middle and sorted what has passed through the Great Gate, embrace the information you've discovered and make it part of your energy.

    Yang Pyun - High Whip - You will come to a point where your martial art skill will be at its highest, and as a warrior, you will be like a lone man, high atop a hill, wielding a whip, and no one will be able to touch you.

    Sal Chu - Killing Hammer - Further down the road, you will have so much knowledge and power that you'll be able to kill with one blow, like a heavy hammer against your enemy.

    Choong Ro - Seize and Capture - You will realize that with all your knowledge, it is not being untouchable or being able to kill with one blow that makes you a skilled martial artist, but being able to capture your enemy WITHOUT causing injury.

    By practicing the Yuk Ro, you walk the path to becoming a great and noble warrior.
     
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  2. MBuzzy

    MBuzzy Grandmaster

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    Kyo Sa Enriquez,

    Have you heard any more about the Federation's plans to publish information on the Yuk Ro hyung? There has been an entry in the wiki for years, but nothing further. The first 3 are published in the English Volume 2, but nothing of the last 3.

    Thank you for this post! I have been trying to remember the "other" names of Yuk Ro Sa and Oh Dan Hyung. Do you happen to know how people have come away from calling them by the Yuk Ro names? I very seldom hear them referred to as such.

    Also, how are they pronounced in your school? "Yuk - ro" or "Yoong - no?" There has been some debate on this pronunciation issue. I know that in standard Korean pronunciation, it should be "yoong - no," but I usually hear it the other way here.
     
  3. JoelD

    JoelD Green Belt

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    Mr. Mills,

    My Sa Bom always pronounces it "yoong no" and occasionally calls them by their ordinal name, i.e. "Yuk Ro Cho Dan", Ee Dan, Sam Dan, etc... but mostly by the other name, "Du Moon", "Chung Jul", "Po Wol", etc... That used to confused the living heck outta me....lol. Before i realized that they were the same forms, that is...hehe

    By the way Kyo Sa Enriquez, The new site for SBDMAA looks great! Cool commercial too. Soo Bahk!!
     
  4. jehja43679

    jehja43679 White Belt

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    I had recently offered up a suggestion to produce Dan Instructional Guides, similar to the Gup Instructional Guides and DVDs. I believe these efforts are still under consideration. Additionally, there were member interest surveys that you may remember from the wiki to produce guides and DVDs just for the Yuk Ro Hyung.

    As far as how people have gone about naming them, while their names, officially, are their ordinal names (as Joel mentioned) the "ancient" names from the Moo Yei Dobo Tong Ji are easier to identify with the hyung in many practitioners' minds because the movements within them are associated with these names, e.g. the Yang Kap Kwon Kong Kyuk equating to opening large doors...

    Oh and in our Do Jang, we go with the 'Yoong-No' pronunciation...

    Thanks so much! I was really pleased with the commercial, and I planned the release of the site to happen with the first airing of the commercial. I put a lot of energy into the site, so I'm happy that you and many others have said such kind words about it.
     
  5. JT_the_Ninja

    JT_the_Ninja Black Belt

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    Hrm...the kinda things that made me wish the ITF did those forms. Cool stuff.
     
  6. aarong

    aarong White Belt

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    I have seen footage of Du Mun, Joong Jol, Po Wol and Yang Pyun. I was just wondering does anybody know if there is any footage anywhere of Sal Chu and Choong Ro?
     
  7. MBuzzy

    MBuzzy Grandmaster

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    Your best bet for those forms is by finding some footage of a US SBD Fed Regionals or Shim Sa where they are being performed. They are fairly high ranked forms, so the footage isn't out there much.
     
  8. JoelD

    JoelD Green Belt

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    As Craig stated those last 2 forms arent seen as much... hopefully at next years regionals i can get some footage of them during the Kodanja forms division.... if someone performs them. Last year the Kodanja performed every one BUT the Yuk Ros...lol

    BTW: Sal Chu ( Yuk Ro O Dan) is a 4th Dan (Sa Dan) form and Choong Ro(Yuk Ro Yuk Dan) is a 5th Dan (O Dan) form in the Moo Duk Kwan curriculum.
     
  9. MBuzzy

    MBuzzy Grandmaster

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    And actually, Joel is probably your best bet for getting the footage! Ask nice! :)
     
  10. aarong

    aarong White Belt

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    ooo cool ....i must saw i would love to see them if you do manage to get footage
     
  11. tsdmgk1336

    tsdmgk1336 Yellow Belt

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    I've seen them all, they emphsize alot of hip rotation. the way the movements are stacked within the hyung makes it very hard to excute the techniques without moving your hips....
     
  12. tsdmgk1336

    tsdmgk1336 Yellow Belt

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    I don't see nothing wrong with you learning them on the side...
     
  13. MBuzzy

    MBuzzy Grandmaster

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    That's a great point! I had never really noticed that, although the fast/slow nature can make the hip movement a bit of a challenge at times.
     
  14. astrobiologist

    astrobiologist Brown Belt

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    I've only learned the first Yuk Ro Hyung. I haven't gone over it in a long time.

    I would like to see more of the Chil Sung and Yuk Ro Hyung. Is anyone out there who pratices/teaches these forms also teaching applications for them?

    One of the main reasons that I've become somewhat skeptic of a lot Tae Kwon Do and Tang Soo Do curriculums is that a lot of them seem to lack a form-applications curriculum (and in some cases a technique-application curriculum as well). Please, no offense to anyone out there. I am not saying that your school is horrible if you don't know what the movements from your forms mean, but I do think each martial artist should take the time to fully consider martial applications of their movements, otherwise their just doing gymnastics.

    I've been working to analyze the movements of the 3 Chil Sung hyung that I know. There's some good stuff in these forms.
     
  15. Makalakumu

    Makalakumu Gonzo Karate Apocalypse

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    There's great stuff in these hyungs, but it's not addressed. In my experience, they forms are practiced as choreographed dances. I've dropped them from my practice because, at a certain point, there are just too many hyungs. There's too much to focus on.
     
  16. astrobiologist

    astrobiologist Brown Belt

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    Good point. We must definitely find depth rather than width in our understanding (i.e. more meaning and less filler material). If there is applicable material in the yuk ro hyung, that would be awesome. But like I said I haven't seen much of these hyung to know if they are dance steps or martial maneuvers.

    I am personally not a fan of these deep front stances in forms and the torso facing straight on the opponent from a front stance. That's a good way to exercise, but a horrible way to fight. Am attacker in that position would end up looking up at me wondering what happened... Forms are meant to be a collection of applicable techniques, not dances.
     
  17. MBuzzy

    MBuzzy Grandmaster

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    I will say that there is certainly a lot of unique material in the Yuk Ros, stuff that isn't found in the classical hyung. So there is definitely something there, if you are willing to take the time to find it. There are not a lot of good, solid applications for these forms.

    Both the Yuk Ros and Chil Sung have the much more chinese style stance that is very deep and long, but neither really have much of the "torso facing straight on the opponent." In fact, in a lot of the moves from Yuk Ro, it is very difficult to even do that, the movement and the hip usage almost forces you to turn your torso.
     
  18. astrobiologist

    astrobiologist Brown Belt

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    Good to know. Like I said I actually have almost no experience with the Yuk Ro hyung (except for the few video clips I've caught on Youtube).

    I would like to know which styles of Chinese martial art the movements were taken from. Many of the northern styles (which were closer to Korea obviously) that I have heard of have a lot of deep, pronounced stances and a lot of higher kicks, but from what I've seen most of their techniques still have many applications that are studied by their practitioners.
     
  19. MBuzzy

    MBuzzy Grandmaster

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    That is unclear, but there is some reference to the So Rim Ryu that GM Hwang Kee may have studied with.
     
  20. JWLuiza

    JWLuiza Black Belt

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    I never fight in a front stance, but in SD scenarios there are many times where I have control of the person and my feet are in a psuedo-front stance and my hips are forward. I'm pretty comfortable and the other person isn't.

    Forms =! Fighting
    Forms = Self-defense combinations

    There is a great application for low cross-blocks in front stance The 4th sequence in Pyung Ahn O Dan, where you have the person controlled via their neck/collar and are knocking them out with a cross punch. WIth the hip turned in and the attacker off balance it is a very strong application.
     

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