Yuen Kay San Passing Footwork

[Argus]

I was wonder if anyone was familiar with the passing step that Kwok Wan Ping demonstrates here.

Edit: The time stamp feature doesn't seem to work when sharing here, but skip to the 5:00 mark to see the footwork I mention.

I am not (yet at least) a Yuen Kay San WC practitioner, though the lineage does interest me.

It seems kind of like a hyun or biu-ma combined with a passing step similar to the footwork from the baat jam dao, and reminiscent of the kind of passing steps that you see in many HEMA or Japanese weapons based arts.

I was wondering if this sort of footwork is common in other lineages as well, and what its general application is far. It seems good for closing distance quickly, and perhaps for flanking to the outside or getting in deep for a throw. Not to mention stepping off line in the case of weapons.

 

[drop bear]

It looks like a turn off or a pivot.

 

[_Simon_]

It looks like a turn off or a pivot.

OR @drop bear........ Kay...... San...... ?

 

[APL76]

That's not a passing step; its for kicking the front leg out from under a forward weighted stance

I was wonder if anyone was familiar with the passing step that Kwok Wan Ping demonstrates here.

Edit: The time stamp feature doesn't seem to work when sharing here, but skip to the 5:00 mark to see the footwork I mention.

I am not (yet at least) a Yuen Kay San WC practitioner, though the lineage does interest me.

It seems kind of like a hyun or biu-ma combined with a passing step similar to the footwork from the baat jam dao, and reminiscent of the kind of passing steps that you see in many HEMA or Japanese weapons based arts.

I was wondering if this sort of footwork is common in other lineages as well, and what its general application is far. It seems good for closing distance quickly, and perhaps for flanking to the outside or getting in deep for a throw. Not to mention stepping off line in the case of weapons.

It's not a step per se, its an attack of the front leg of a front weighted stance. Doing it the way Kwok Wan Ping is demonstrating it there it won't work. I can only surmise that he didn't want to show that guy how to actually do it.

 

[Argus]

That's not a passing step; its for kicking the front leg out from under a forward weighted stance

It's not a step per se, its an attack of the front leg of a front weighted stance. Doing it the way Kwok Wan Ping is demonstrating it there it won't work. I can only surmise that he didn't want to show that guy how to actually do it.

Interesting. I'd like to see the kicking version.

But, you don't see it as also having value as just a piece of foot work? It seems like a good way to chase, close distance, or flank an opponent rather than just shuffling up the center with biu ma. Maybe a target for a kick presents itself, maybe not, and it works either way?

There's also that old saying (not sure how universal it is) "every step is a kick; every kick is a step"

 

[Svarog]

There is a similar step or better word is technique in Snake Crane Wing Chun and interestingly in Bajiquan. It is actually a kick that aims either ankle or a heel of the opponent . Also the angle of the technique\step is slightly different

 

[geezer]

We do a similar passing step that can, with minor variations: a. simply be used to cover ground and maintain pressure against a retreating opponent, b. be used together with a "cutting punch" much as shown here, or c. be used to close and attack your opponent's front leg, ....perhaps like what APL76 was referencing above?

In any case, this is something we do in our group, and not identical to what I was taught in the "WT" lineage. On the other hand, it's a step, not rocket science so I imagine a lot of people use stuff that's pretty similar.

 

[APL76]

Interesting. I'd like to see the kicking version.

But, you don't see it as also having value as just a piece of foot work? It seems like a good way to chase, close distance, or flank an opponent rather than just shuffling up the center with biu ma. Maybe a target for a kick presents itself, maybe not, and it works either way?

There's also that old saying (not sure how universal it is) "every step is a kick; every kick is a step"

Well, I hesitate to make a definitive statement as to its efficacy, or lack thereof, outside of attacking a weighted leg, but there are things that are intended to cover all of that outside of that technique, the knife footwork being just one (and at face value at any rate very similar in appearance, at least to how Kwok is doing it here). As far as I learned it, and given what it is supposed to look like, I suspect its range of usefulness is fairly confined to attacking the leg. All the same, the more I learn the more I also learn that there are few black and whites; maybe there are legitimate uses outside of what I know.

But, I wouldn't read too much into the way Kwok Wan Ping is doing it, It's pretty half a@#$ed, and I suspect deliberately so. He was definitely Sum Nung's disciple, he would certainly know the technique. I'm guessing he just didn't want to show it to that guy.

 

[geezer]

....he would certainly know the technique. I'm guessing he just didn't want to show it to that guy.

That's quite common among older Chinese sifus. My old sifu would often show incomplete or even deliberately wrong stuff to keep the "real knowledge" private. As a result, he put out a fair amount of stuff publicly that wasn't truly representational of what he believed. And frankly, even though I saw more of the "authentic stuff" I'm sure he held a lot back from me too. Especially later on, after I got on his bad side....

As a teacher by profession, I find that ...er ... "cultural trait" quite unethical. But it "is what it is" and we get instruction where we can find it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I was wondering if this sort of footwork is common in other lineages as well,

To advance the leading foot, the back foot slide and follow is commonly used in many CMA system.

Just wonder what kind of punch is used at 1.10 - 1.44? It looks like neither back fist nor uppercut. What is it? Why not just use a straight punch to the face?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

My old sifu would often show incomplete or even deliberately wrong stuff to keep the "real knowledge" private.

This kind of attitude is not worthy. Students will talk badly about their teacher after their teacher has passed away.

You came to this earth. you then leave the earth. To leave a bad reputation on earth is just not a smart thing to do.

 

[geezer]

This kind of attitude is not worthy. Students will talk badly about their teacher after their teacher has passed away.
You came to this earth. you then leave the earth. To leave a bad reputation on earth is just not a smart thing to do.

Very true remarks ....whether talking about your MA instructor or applied more broadly to our leaders in general. Some will "leave a bad reputation...."

 

[APL76]

To advance the leading foot, the back foot slide and follow is commonly used in many CMA system.

Just wonder what kind of punch is used at 1.10 - 1.44? It looks like neither back fist nor uppercut. What is it? Why not just use a straight punch to the face?

That punch, assuming that guy is doing what I was taught is simply meant to be a straight punch just with an inverted horizontal fist. Its not uncommon in a few varieties of wing chun as far as I have seen.

 

[obi_juan_salami]

This kind of attitude is not worthy. Students will talk badly about their teacher after their teacher has passed away.

You came to this earth. you then leave the earth. To leave a bad reputation on earth is just not a smart thing to do.

regardless of reputation or reason, a teacher surely has the right to pass on/keep for himself their own hard earned knowledge?

 

[drop bear]

regardless of reputation or reason, a teacher surely has the right to pass on/keep for himself their own hard earned knowledge?

It wouldn't be very clever in today's competitive market though. When you can get some seriously good training for very little investment.

 

[obi_juan_salami]

It wouldn't be very clever in today's competitive market though. When you can get some seriously good training for very little investment.

true, if you are selling it. Then 'trade secrets' particularly genuine ones could give you an upperhand, i can see that.

not all teachers are out to make money though and some couldnt give a rats *** what the market is like.

personally im of the opinion that, although of course teachers have a responsibilty to their students in that they shouldnt mislead them, the responsibility of the student has been a little downplayed in modern times. as a seeker of knowledge and skill isnt it just as much the students role to train hard, with dedication and loyalty and be (as cringily mystical as it sounds) 'worthy' of what they have been taught? the whole reason i learn from my teacher/teachers is i wana be a baddass like them. if i could be half as awesome ill take what i can get! instead of feeling some kind of entitlement that i and everyone deserve to know every detail about everything.

A really wise man once told me that if you really value what you have learned you wouldnt share it easily. not only cause you worked damn hard for it but the moral implications of not contributing to the wider communities library of knowledge are dwarfed by blindely giving away to anyone, of any character the knowledge to potentially misuse and cause harm in society?

 

[APL76]

That's quite common among older Chinese sifus. My old sifu would often show incomplete or even deliberately wrong stuff to keep the "real knowledge" private. As a result, he put out a fair amount of stuff publicly that wasn't truly representational of what he believed. And frankly, even though I saw more of the "authentic stuff" I'm sure he held a lot back from me too. Especially later on, after I got on his bad side....

As a teacher by profession, I find that ...er ... "cultural trait" quite unethical. But it "is what it is" and we get instruction where we can find it.

Honestly, I think it's quite reasonable in most cases.

After all, think about being in Kwok Wan Ping's position. Some guy comes up to you and expects you to spill your guts to him all about your kung fu and allow him to film it no less. Why would or should you? I wouldn't just lay it all out for some guy who showed up and just wanted me to show him stuff. I would probably do it exactly as KWP was in that video. How do you know you can trust this guy?

My sifu would always reiterate two things to me once he finally gave me permission to teach 1) before you buy a horse watch to see which horse runs the furthest; and 2) once you teach something you can't take it back.

Far from disagreeing with it I understand it and I agree with it. But, to each their own. I know it's a pretty unpopular attitude these days and if people have the opposite opinion that's OK by me.

Also, myself as a teacher by profession (until covid run the programme I taught in off the rails at least) I agree that it would be problematic if I taught anthropology with the attitude with which I teach wing chun. Different contexts.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

regardless of reputation or reason, a teacher surely has the right to pass on/keep for himself their own hard earned knowledge?

You go to MIT computer science department to learn how to be a software engineer. Your MIT professor teaches you how to write a computer program. The first program that you write, your computer says, "invalid programming syntax". Will you take your MIT computer science professor to be responsible for this?

potentially misuse and cause harm in society?

What if a teacher taught his students the wrong information, his student tried to use it to save his wife from being killed. It didn't work. His wife was killed. Will that be the teacher's fault?

if you really value what you have learned you wouldnt share it easily.

I have never heard anyone who does scientific research and has never published any paper. The moment that you publish your paper. Your knowledge is in the public domain.

Science is all about sharing. MA should be no different.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

show incomplete or even deliberately wrong stuff to keep the "real knowledge" private.

Incomplete information doesn't bother me, but wrong information bother me a lot.

Incomplete information - To do body squeeze, you need to put your leg behind your opponent's leg.

Complete information - To do body squeeze, you need to put your leg behind your opponent's "back" leg.

Nobody will force you to teach. But if you decide to teach, you should not teach the wrong information.

This is OK.

A: Will you teach me?
B: No! I won't.

This is not OK.

A: Will you teach me.
B: Yes! I will. Your first lesson is to use a dumbbell to hit on your own head 1000 times to develop your "toughness".

I have seen a MA instructor who taught his student in the following way.

A: Dear master! I want to learn meditation from you.
B: Draw a dot on the wall. Sit 1 foot away from the wall. Stare at it for 2 hours non-stop daily.

2 months later, that student had a pair glasses on.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Some guy comes up to you and expects you to spill your guts to him all about your kung fu and allow him to film it no less. Why would or should you?

There are other method to steal someone's secret.

My teacher wanted to learn a master's favor technique, but that master won't teach my teacher. My teacher went to that master's house, kicked on his front door, cursed on his whole family. The master came out, chased my teacher, and beat my teacher up with his favor technique. My teacher ran away, turned his head around, and said, "Thank you for teaching me your favor technique."