Youtube reliability

[Flying Crane]

Speaking of Sasquatch, I just read a very very short little book, kind of a graphic novel but maybe 20 pages long, entitled "The Autobiography of Bigfoot". Sorry but I cannot remember the author, inspite of the "autobiography" bit.

I've not laughed so hard in a long time. Very twisted, funny little book. I highly recommend it.

 

[WC_lun]

It isn't that there aren't good videos of various martial arts on Youtube. It is that for every good video there are many more terrible or uninformed videos. For someone who doesn't know what they are looking at, it can lead them to believe the trash is the real stuff.

 

[fangjian]

It isn't that there aren't good videos of various martial arts on Youtube. It is that for every good video there are many more terrible or uninformed videos. For someone who doesn't know what they are looking at, it can lead them to believe the trash is the real stuff.

Right, but if I ask you to offer a video that would show me what your style is all about, I would imagine you could point me in the right direction. If I search all by myself for Ninjutsu or Capoeira videos, I will not be able to distinguish what may be fraudulent or whatever. But if I ask someone on here that claims knowledge in those styles, I bet they know where to look.

BTW, I was searching on youtube for things like "Capoeira self defense combat", and I found some videos that were pretty interesting. I can't tell if it was just a Capoeirista who knew other fighting concepts and put them into the movements of Capoeira, or if it was truly Capoeira in origin. None the less, it was ok.

 

[yorkshirelad]

I'll tell you what. Instead of re-creating the circus show that the Capoeira thread became, I'll just circumvent the whole problem and tell you this: you and I have nothing further to discuss about anything, ever.

Who mentioned capoeira? Certainly not me. I was talking about Sasquatch.

 

[yorkshirelad]

So then you're saying you believe there is a Sasquatch because there are videos of him/her on YouTube, is that it.

No, not at all! I'd have to see the footage and then determine if the thing is real or not. I've seen doctored footage of the Lock Ness monster. Do I believe it exists? no Why? Because the footage is always a little too grainy or out of focus. If I saw footage of a fighting art and the footage was out of focus, filmed in the distance so I couldn't see the form or too grainy, I wouldn't make a indepth critique.

 

[yorkshirelad]

I think videos give a superficial source for input about anything.
I think seeing a Capoeira video for example would only provide me with a rudementary understanding of what Capoeira is.

If I want to know more about it and its applications I would be looking to find a teacher who can show me the applications from there, I feel I can make a better informed choice
if Capoeira is something that would work in my ideal self defense applications.

This is true, but as Martial Artists can make a determination as to the effectiveness of an art. As I said in the infamous Capoeira thread, i could see Ueshiba performing ninin-dori and it looks like the uke are compliant. If this is all I have to go on, I can make the determination that the art is not a combative art. Why? Because the attacks are unrealistic, as is the defense. If I then go to an Aikidojo and all they do is a little conditionng and then ninin-dori with the same attacks that are in the film I saw and all the uke are compliant, I can come to the conclusion that this is not a combat efective art.

Now, let's say that I see the video of Ueshiba performing and I make the determination that it's not combat effective and I make my views hears. Someone replies with Dave Dye's Aikido series that explains the combat effectiveness of the basic controls Ikajo through Gokjo. He then teaches Kote-gaeshi, Shiho-Nage and Iriminage. Then I can say, "This is not what the Ueshiba video portrayed". In the video all I saw was Kokyu-nage and tai-sabaki and now I see a contextual video.

If someone, however was to just show me kokyu-nage against a violent club attack and say that this was practical Aikido and show me nothing else of the system, I would ask them to pull the other one. I would not believe it to be a combat effective Martial Art.
If they said "There is no footage, but take my word for it, this art is combat effective". I just wouldn't believe it until I saw it.

I just can't understand why certain people are geting angry and frustrated about this! The whole thing is a little bizarre!

 

[yorkshirelad]

It isn't that there aren't good videos of various martial arts on Youtube. It is that for every good video there are many more terrible or uninformed videos. For someone who doesn't know what they are looking at, it can lead them to believe the trash is the real stuff.

Then it's good for us that we're all experienced Martial Artists and we can separate the wheat from the chaff in most cases.

 

[yorkshirelad]

Claims that there exist schools of Capoeira that teach self defense do not require the same amount of evidence that are required of claims that Sasquatch exist.

Exactly my point, a video would do, or a link to a website. All I was asking for was a video and I got berated for it!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Exactly my point, a video would do, or a link to a website. All I was asking for was a video and I got berated for it!

Personally, I did not think that it was an unreasonable request. But things kind of took on a life of their own. I definitely think that there came a point where you and FC were talking past each other.

Also, once it became clear that the sort of video that would have been helpful was not going to be forthcoming, continued calls for it became pointless.

I stated there that the lack of such material for Capoeira was unfortunate, but if it isn't to be had then it isn't to be had.

No video is an inconvenience, but unless you are desperately trying to find out this information in order to decide whether or not to take a Capoeira class, it is all academic. And even then, a quick visit to the school to watch a class or two will tell you what you want to know.

Daniel

 

[yorkshirelad]

Also, once it became clear that the sort of video that would have been helpful was not going to be forthcoming, continued calls for it became pointless.

Yes, you're right, but I still think it's a little odd given the fascination for all things Brazillian these days!

No video is an inconvenience, but unless you are desperately trying to find out this information in order to decide whether or not to take a Capoeira class, it is all academic. And even then, a quick visit to the school to watch a class or two will tell you what you want to know.

Daniel

I have been to a school and i still didn't find it!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Yes, you're right, but I still think it's a little odd given the fascination for all things Brazillian these days!

Hot Brazilian babes might have something to do with that.

I have been to a school and i still didn't find it!

Sure you did; you found that it wasn't what you were looking for. That is really all that I'd need to know to decide whether or not to sign up.

Daniel

 

[Josh Oakley]

I would like to point out that for the most part, we weren't saying "trust me". I was actually explicit in saying "I don't expect you to trust me. Do your own research, but do it more in depth than you've been doing it."

Then your camp was all like "we WANT to do better research, so give us the vids!"

Then we were all like "That's not doing your own research! We don't know if any vids of this stuff anyway because, amazingly, there are some martial artists that aren't narcissistic camera whores!"

Then your camp was all like "ALL MARTIAL ARTISTS ARE CAMERA WHORES! That's why God invented YOUTUBE! Vids or it didn't happen!"

Then my camp was all like "ARRGH! ANGRY WORDS! REHASH OF EVERYTHING WE ALREADY SAID"

And your camp was all "VIDS! GIVE US VIDS OR DIE!"

"Your stupid!"
"No YOU'RE stupid"
"YOUR BREATH SMELLS LIKE POO POO!"
"YOU PLAY BALL LIKE A GIRL"

Somewhere in all this I wondered why in the name of Fuzzy do we not have a facepalm smiley and sat up in the bleachers with the rest of the girls who came to watch they man ball. (Bonus rep if you can name the reference)

 

[Kittan Bachika]

Youtube and online videos in general are great sources of information. I learned a lot about different styles and techniques. But it is not a substitute to good old fashioned training.

Also, a lot of people mistake it for the truth. There are a lot of youtube videos of fights betwen different styles. A lot of people assume that when one style wins over the other, they think that style is superior. There is one youtube video where a MMA fighter takes a on a Kung Fu fighter. The MMA guy ended up taking down the Kung Fu Guy and it looked like he also broke his arm.

Does that mean MMA is a superior style? No. We don't knwo the background of the marital artists. The MMA guy may have been training for 10 years. The Kung Fu guy may have studied for a week or maybe he was out of shape. Or maybe it was the first time the Kung Fu guy actually sparred.

You also have to realize that match probably had rules. If it was on the street it is a different story. Kung Fu is a very nasty art because a lot of the techniques are designed to either kill or maim. So if you got a kung fu guy fighting an MMA guy with MMA rules. the MMA guys has hte advantage.

I only know this from my own experience in fighting Kung Fu guys. I got my butt handed to me by some of these Kung Fu guys and this was just light contact.

You also see a lot of crap martial arts, like supposed masters who think they are Jedis and can knock you out with a look.

People have to take it with a grain of salt of what is on youtube and make the effort to actually talk and have physical contact with different styles.

 

[mook jong man]

It would be helpful to say which system of Kung Fu it is .
They are many and varied , some differing from each other like night and day.

The amount of systems and sub systems there are of Kung Fu would probably add up to more than the total of all other martial art styles on the planet and that's without even counting the Kung Fu systems that have been lost in antiquity.

So when you say Kung Fu that is a very broad term , it's a bit like saying " I bought a car " "Yeah what type of car"?

 

[OzPaul]

This is how reliable YouTube is...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt7MGgxbhho&feature=related

But on a serious note there is some great videos to be found however it does take awhile to find them.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Here’s the thing about all this “I want proof in video” ridiculousness, from a more traditional Chinese Martial Artist view, not Traditional Chinese Martial Arts but a Chinese martial artist with traditional views. Now I could use my Taijiquan sifu as an example but I think that might start a how other issue so I will use my Sanda sifu since they have the same view of this.

You approach him and ask him for a video to prove that Sanda is any good he will likely tell you "no" and if you then ask him to prove Sanda works again he will tell you no or tell you it doesn’t work. If you then say Sanda is a load of crap he will tell you yes it is. Basically “your desire to see a video does not produce in them a desire to give you one” and your desire for proof does not produce in him a desire to give it to you” this all comes down to the fact that you are simply not that important to him, you and your opinion simply do not matter to him.

Now if you decide to be a complete and utter idiot and take it a step further and attack him or someone that matters to him, he will hurt you, very badly.

It is all well and good that someone wants video proof but frankly to be blunt about it

 

[yorkshirelad]

Here’s the thing about all this “I want proof in video” ridiculousness, from a more traditional Chinese Martial Artist view

This is a fair enough post, but there are a few things to consider;

1) We're not talking about Chinese Martial Arts here.

2) You don't care! Good! If that's what the sentiment had been in the former thread there would've been no argument. That would've been it. That wasn't the case however. In the former thread, we had people screamng that Capoeira was a practical combative art. They desperately wanted us to adher to their point of view. All I wanted was to see some footage of Capoeira combative techniques, something that didn't involve handstand or cartwheel kicks, or anything flash that would place the defender in a very precarious position. They desperatley wanted us to believe. If that's the case then show us. The former thread became a n argument about the effectiveness of Capoeira as a combative art. If you want to convince us then show us. If you don't care, there is no argument!!

 

[Xue Sheng]

This is a fair enough post, but there are a few things to consider;


1) We're not talking about Chinese Martial Arts here.

2) You don't care! Good! If that's what the sentiment had been in the former thread there would've been no argument. That would've been it. That wasn't the case however. In the former thread, we had people screamng that Capoeira was a practical combative art. They desperately wanted us to adher to their point of view. All I wanted was to see some footage of Capoeira combative techniques, something that didn't involve handstand or cartwheel kicks, or anything flash that would place the defender in a very precarious position. They desperatley wanted us to believe. If that's the case then show us. The former thread became a n argument about the effectiveness of Capoeira as a combative art. If you want to convince us then show us. If you don't care, there is no argument!!

I don't do Capoeira, never have actually so I cannot speak for it, but it could be that those in the Capoeira world think much the same way as a CMA Sifu... and to be blunt again... my post was not aimed at you or Capoeira it was aimed a YouTube and those using it as proof of anything since the title of the thread is Youtube reliability not Youtube reliability and Capoeira

But thanks for the answer, particularly the bold bits with the added exclamation points... You do realize that comes across as yelling on a web forum don't you... or we're you actually yelling at me?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

The reliability of you tube is dependant upon you. Like the rest of the web, there is no filter for the quality of the content. If you don't have the knowledge to discern what you are looking at, then it will be very hit or miss, with the latter more likely.
Take a peak at this thread: http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95707. A good number of videos are presented, but if you have either no background or a very shallow background in sword arts, you will have a hard time commenting intelligently about them.

If you do know what you are looking at, you will have to do the work to sift through what is there and find what you are after, with the possibility that you may simply not find it.

Daniel

 

[yorkshirelad]

I don't do Capoeira, never have actually so I cannot speak for it, but it could be that those in the Capoeira world think much the same way as a CMA Sifu... and to be blunt again... my post was not aimed at you or Capoeira it was aimed a YouTube and those using it as proof of anything since the title of the thread is Youtube reliability not Youtube reliability and Capoeira

But thanks for the answer, particularly the bold bits with the added exclamation points... You do realize that comes across as yelling on a web forum don't you... or we're you actually yelling at me?

Oh, sorry about that mate! I was just trying to emphasize what I consider the important points of the posts!

It could quite weel be that the Capoeira world think on the same lines of your Sifu, but that's all they have to say. Instead the whole thing became a crusade to prove what has turned out to be unproveable on this forum. If the previous posters had just expressed their uncaring sentiments about this issue, there would've been no argument, but that was not the case!