You always attack first

[jobo]

Well, I never said you should just let yourself be stomped on. I can't speak for other nations, but in the US you do have the right to defend yourself. But, in the US, if you throw the first strike or make the first move to turn the situation physical, that then creates a situation where your actions may come under scrutiny.

If throwing the first shot is your fundamental strategy, then you may find yourself in a tough legal/criminal situation. It can be an effective strategy in a fight, but it can also land you in trouble, including behind bars.

Beware, and make sure you can justify your actions. In these discussions it is my impression that some people do not always do that.

I take on board what your saying, but you don't have time to consider the finer legal points, but my instructer has been drilling us to fight from the hands up surrender position, so it looks clear on CCTV who is the attacker, so even if you strike first you have back up

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Good thing he wasn't killed, could have been a lot worse trying to explain that to the police

That's the advantage of the throwing art. You can let the earth to do the punch for you. After you have thrown your opponent on the ground, if you still remain standing, that may not look good on you. If you pretend you lose balance and fall down with your opponent, you can fool a lot of witness's eyes.

 

[Flying Crane]

I take on board what your saying, but you don't have time to consider the finer legal points, but my instructed has been drilling us to fight from the hands up surrender position, so it looks clear on CCTV who is the attacker, so even if you strike first you have back up

Ok, but that's a pretty easy situation to manipulate. Meaning, one could try to set it up to look like a surrender position as you describe, when their intention all along is assault. Law enforcement isn't stupid, they can see through these smoke screens. That's why they will scrutinize the actions.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Many years ago, I got into a fight in the Shenyang northern train station in China. A soldier cut in line to buy train ticket. I asked him to get back to the end of the line. He refused. I took him down on the hard concrete floor. When I did that, I intentionally drop my body weight on top of his body and used him as a soft landing pillow.

3 Chinese policemen came and asked what had just happened. I told them, "We got into argument. Our bodies tangled, we both lose balance, and fell. His head hit on the ground. It was a pure accident." Those Chinese cops let me go. That soldier got his train ticket. I had my MA tested. Some justice was served. We all live happy ever after.

Good thing for me tickets don't rank up high on my list of things to fight about. I didn't see any gains The soldier still got his ticket and didn't go to the back of the line and time was wasted going to the ground and talking to the police. No one was arrested. If you didn't have the fight then everything would have worked out the same, but faster in both of you getting a ticket for the train.

 

[jobo]

Ok, but that's a pretty easy situation to manipulate. Meaning, one could try to set it up to look like a surrender position as you describe, when their intention all along is assault. Law enforcement isn't stupid, they can see through these smoke screens. That's why they will scrutinize the actions.

well thats rather the point, one you lull the other guy into range and two you look like the agreived party, it matters not what the police think, but rather on what they can prove

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Good thing for me tickets don't rank up high on my list of things to fight about. I didn't see any gains The soldier still got his ticket and didn't go to the back of the line and time was wasted going to the ground and talking to the police. No one was arrested. If you didn't have the fight then everything would have worked out the same, but faster in both of you getting a ticket for the train.

When my girl friend and I traveled in China,

- she liked to ask why people smoke.
- I liked to ask why people don't stay in line.

Both of us thought we did something good for the human being.

 

[Flying Crane]

well thats rather the point, one you lull the other guy into range and two you look like the agreived party, it matters not what the police think, but rather on what they can prove

Ok then, good luck. Eventually that won't work out so well for you.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The advantage that you attack first are:

- You will have less change to fall into your opponent's trap (set up).
- You force your opponent to fight your way and not his way.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Too much thinking. Just fight or don't fight, then be done.

 

[hoshin1600]

this is how you do pre emptive strikes,

 

[drop bear]

Um, why didn't you just walk away?
Personally I would have pressed charges but that's just me.

No where to go. I was inside a pub at the time. That means security cameras and other people if a fight goes pear shaped.

Walking away means leaving that pub so I am on my own in some dark alley. With no witnesses. Which is a rookie error.

I did call the cops. They rolled up 45 minutes later.

No charges as far as I know.

 

[drop bear]

Ok, but that's a pretty easy situation to manipulate. Meaning, one could try to set it up to look like a surrender position as you describe, when their intention all along is assault. Law enforcement isn't stupid, they can see through these smoke screens. That's why they will scrutinize the actions.

Not in my experience.

 

[drop bear]

Good thing for me tickets don't rank up high on my list of things to fight about. I didn't see any gains The soldier still got his ticket and didn't go to the back of the line and time was wasted going to the ground and talking to the police. No one was arrested. If you didn't have the fight then everything would have worked out the same, but faster in both of you getting a ticket for the train.

If you don't follow the rules then the terrorists win.

Do you want the terrorists to win?

I used to guard a taxi rank at 3am. Line cutting was a major offence.

 

[Psilent Knight]

Legalities aside, action is always, always, ALWAYS Faster than reaction!! He who makes the first move usually has the better chance of making the last move as well.

Take Care Everyone,
Osu!

 

[jobo]

Legalities aside, action is always, always, ALWAYS Faster than reaction!!

Take Care Everyone,
Osu!

only by a tenth of a second or so

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

US attacked Iraq first. US didn't wait for Iraq to attack and then counter. Whatever US did is always 100% correct in logic.

 

[JP3]

If I get caught in a "predator vs prey" situation, such as a street mugging with no warning, I had better have done at least some work on blending and accepting energy (rolling/turning with a strike), or else you don't get the opportunity to shift into a "duel, monkey dominance dance" situation. That's what I think.

Of course it's tactically better to be offensive, to limit options and to force the other guy to react to what you are doing... but it is not real-world realistic to always train that way, imo...

 

[drop bear]

US attacked Iraq first. US didn't wait for Iraq to attack and then counter. Whatever US did is always 100% correct in logic.

And I believe the term used was preemptive self defense.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And I believe the term used was preemptive self defense.

I have always loved those terms such as:

- preemptive self defense.
- help someone to go to heaven.
- help someone to end his misery life.
- help someone to be with his passed parents.
- help someone to reconstruct his ugly face.
- help someone to get ride of his useless body part.
- ...

 

[CB Jones]

I know a firearm instructor that uses "looking for business"