You afraid to die?

[green meanie]

I ain't scared. :asian:

 

[Makalakumu]

My opinion is... I don't want to die, but I really don't fear it. However, I do not want to hasten it either. Don't confuse not fearing death with wanting death.

I don't think "not fearing death" automatically equates with "wanting death." A daredevil who foolishly risks life and limb isn't seeking death and they obviously do not fear it. However, a daredevil who carefully calculates his/her risks and takes the proper safety precautions may not fear the risk, but certainly fears death. Otherwise why would they even take those precautions?

 

[Jenna]

I ain't scared. :asian:

Hey green meanie

Thank you for your no-fluff reply. If you will allow me to ask you a no-fluff question.... how do you know?

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[green meanie]

Hey green meanie

Thank you for your no-fluff reply. If you will allow me to ask you a no-fluff question.... how do you know?

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

I don't know. How do you know if you are?

Now. Are you asking me if I've been in life threatening situations? Was I afraid I might die when I was? Then the answer is 'yes' to the first and 'no' to the second. I've been there and looked it in the eye. I'm on the other side of it now and there isn't any going back.

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

Aye?

 

[Makalakumu]

If you allow fear of anything (death, heights, dogs, etc) to dictate your actions, then it rules you completely.

If you really think about it, the fear of death already rules most people completely. I will use myself as an example. When I drive, I put on a seatbelt because I don't want to die. When I ride a bike, I put on a helmet because I don't want to die. When I canoe or kayak, I put on my life jacket because I don't want to die. I don't drink and drive because I don't want to die. I don't smoke because I don't want to die. I don't have lots of promiscuous unprotected sex because I don't want to die (my wife would kill me!). This litany goes on and on and on and I think that in most people it would be easily repeated.

IMO, it is hard for me to understand why people would say that all of these precautions do not stem from a fear of death. That is what I'm hoping someone will explain.

upnorthkyosa

ps - nomad, I'm not trying to twist your words or "win" any debates or arguments. I'm just trying to discuss this very interesting topic. :asian:

 

[Makalakumu]

I don't know. How do you know if you are?

Because I do everything I can to preserve my life...in most circumstances.

 

[Carol]

Hey Carol
The hardest battle to win is the battle over yourself. Look down at your knuckles and tell me those are not cuts and scars and lifted skin from battles fought already. Because only when you tell me those are not really cuts will I allow you to fall down a victim. Until then let those knuckle scars taughten and hurt and remind you that you are a fighter and not a victim and wrap up your hands tightly and put your gloves back on and remember the path to the championship is fought one round at a time

Seconds out please....

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Jenna my friend

You are one heck of a coach. Thanks for taping me back up! The bell is about to ring for the next round. I'm ready, lemme at 'em

 

[Jenna]

I don't know. How do you know if you are?

Now. Are you asking me if I've been in life threatening situations? Was I afraid I might die when I was? Then the answer is 'yes' to the first and 'no' to the second. I've been there and looked it in the eye. I'm on the other side of it now and there isn't any going back.

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

Aye?

Well now I have nothing but veiled admiration for those like your good self who do not have this fear. No really because to have the capability to repress something so natural as fear of dying is a serious feat and I can only assume you are not bluffing because only a fool would not realise the only person they deceive in such a bluff is themselves. I guess you are not a climber or a caver or a speed-freak biker or a skydiver or a white water rafter because to get the thrill from these activities the participant requires some modicum of fear for their lives -- and knowing they will survive of course -- but without the fear there is no true enjoyment of the risk.

I am not certain if you would deign to be a Star Trek watcher but even so you will know what I mean if I say your position is very "Spock" and I sincerely hope that works out well for you

I wonder in what other ways you get your kicks you cannot possibly be a thrill seeker. A side issue of course I apologise

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Jenna]

I do not fear death for I know that all must die sometime. It is my hope that when I do, my death will be meaningful and have purpose. I do wonder at times, what legacy have I created? I see my legacy already with my family, but what of my friends and others I associate? :idunno:

I suppose that is all that matters--my family and loved ones will have me within their hearts. Whether it extends to others with similar thoughts, I guess I won't know while I'm alive.

- Ceicei

Hey Ceicei Thank you SO much for looking in!

Yes legacies are the only meaningful and realisable continuity and to think on the trail you have cut through this life and of the marks you have put on people (good ones I mean) to meditate on this often is surely a good thing for seeing your life quantitatively if such a thing is possible?

But you hit on a key point when you say "I guess I won't know while I'm alive" because this points out another factor that is a major cause of regret I think and that is that we do not always ASK the important questions of people of family and friends while we are alive and we leave so much ASSUMED and really do not know things for certain. that is interesting and thank you for making me think on it.

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Nomad]

If you really think about it, the fear of death already rules most people completely. I will use myself as an example. When I drive, I put on a seatbelt because I don't want to die. When I ride a bike, I put on a helmet because I don't want to die. When I canoe or kayak, I put on my life jacket because I don't want to die. I don't drink and drive because I don't want to die. I don't smoke because I don't want to die. I don't have lots of promiscuous unprotected sex because I don't want to die (my wife would kill me!). This litany goes on and on and on and I think that in most people it would be easily repeated.

IMO, it is hard for me to understand why people would say that all of these precautions do not stem from a fear of death. That is what I'm hoping someone will explain.

upnorthkyosa

ps - nomad, I'm not trying to twist your words or "win" any debates or arguments. I'm just trying to discuss this very interesting topic. :asian:

Hmmm... even though everything here on both sides is written in plain English, I feel like we're speaking different languages here (and I mean this respectfully). For me, "I don't want to die" does not equate with "I fear death"... for reasons already given in my previous posts. And with that, I really can't think of anything else to say that wouldn't be rehashing.

 

[Nomad]

I guess you are not a climber or a caver or a speed-freak biker or a skydiver or a white water rafter because to get the thrill from these activities the participant requires some modicum of fear for their lives -- and knowing they will survive of course -- but without the fear there is no true enjoyment of the risk.

OK, wait a minute... so the only reason to do these activities is to obtain joy by risking death? This seems a stretch to me. A climber challenges himself, his skill and technique to get to the top of an obstacle in front of him. Does he do this only so he can feel the exhilaration caused by the possibility of falling? I don't think so.

A caver is exploring areas that most people will never get a chance to see, often a place with beautiful limestone sculptures and other features. You think his only motivation comes from the possibility of getting lost, falling, or otherwise dying in the cave?

In all of the activities you've mentioned, there are multiple reasons to do them. One of these reasons may be because the person is an adrenaline junky... which does not necessarily mean that they only get off through their fear of death! The sensations of skydiving have often been compared to the exhilaration of actually flying, and I think the "fear of death", while it may add something to the experience for some people is more likely to put people off these activities.

A big waterslide is exhilarating for the speed you obtain on the way down, but the risk is probably the same as (or less than) crossing an intersection. I don't think there's a solid connection here (or in any of your examples) with being afraid of death (or not).

 

[Makalakumu]

Hmmm... even though everything here on both sides is written in plain English, I feel like we're speaking different languages here (and I mean this respectfully). For me, "I don't want to die" does not equate with "I fear death"... for reasons already given in my previous posts. And with that, I really can't think of anything else to say that wouldn't be rehashing.

Fair enough...:asian:

Anyone else want to take a shot at separating the concept of "I don't want to die" from a "fear of death."

In my opinion, it seems as if one naturally flows into another, as I have stated above.

Another point I would like to make is that I think that humans are pretty darn good about rationalizing their fear so they can get on with their lives. Sometimes, however, we go to far and get ourselves into trouble. Most people call this "bad judgement" although sometimes it can just be an "accident."

 

[Jenna]

OK, wait a minute... so the only reason to do these activities is to obtain joy by risking death? This seems a stretch to me. A climber challenges himself, his skill and technique to get to the top of an obstacle in front of him. Does he do this only so he can feel the exhilaration caused by the possibility of falling? I don't think so.

A caver is exploring areas that most people will never get a chance to see, often a place with beautiful limestone sculptures and other features. You think his only motivation comes from the possibility of getting lost, falling, or otherwise dying in the cave?

In all of the activities you've mentioned, there are multiple reasons to do them. One of these reasons may be because the person is an adrenaline junky... which does not necessarily mean that they only get off through their fear of death! The sensations of skydiving have often been compared to the exhilaration of actually flying, and I think the "fear of death", while it may add something to the experience for some people is more likely to put people off these activities.

A big waterslide is exhilarating for the speed you obtain on the way down, but the risk is probably the same as (or less than) crossing an intersection. I don't think there's a solid connection here (or in any of your examples) with being afraid of death (or not).

Hey mister Nomad
I am simply using these as a metric but if the analogy does not suit you then do not worry about dwelling on the literal interpretation. Let me instead invite you to step out of the question a little and allow me to ask you what is it that you ARE afraid of?

Thank you

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Dying is easy. Living is the hard part. Particularly if you want to do any of it well.

Best Regards,

Dave

 

[bydand]

Thanks for reminding me. I need to delete some porn...

Oh man Kreth, that is too funny.

As for the question, no I'm not afraid of death, but sometimes the manner of death frightens me. I watched my Grandfather slowly die a bit at a time from Alzhimers, and my father-in-law die from lung and brain cancer. I wouldn't want my kids to witness either of those ways of departing. I too believe like Terry of an afterlife with God, so the thought of leaving this world behind for what I believe is waiting isn't difficult. I love my life, I love every day I get to spend on this spinning ball of insanity with my family, and in no way wish it to come to an end anytime soon. I just pray that when my number is up, I don't linger. Kinda hope it happens with a fishing rod in hand, better with a lunker on the end of the line as well, but beggers can't be choosers.

 

[green meanie]

Well now I have nothing but veiled admiration for those like your good self who do not have this fear. No really because to have the capability to repress something so natural as fear of dying is a serious feat and I can only assume you are not bluffing because only a fool would not realise the only person they deceive in such a bluff is themselves. I guess you are not a climber or a caver or a speed-freak biker or a skydiver or a white water rafter because to get the thrill from these activities the participant requires some modicum of fear for their lives -- and knowing they will survive of course -- but without the fear there is no true enjoyment of the risk.

I am not certain if you would deign to be a Star Trek watcher but even so you will know what I mean if I say your position is very "Spock" and I sincerely hope that works out well for you

I wonder in what other ways you get your kicks you cannot possibly be a thrill seeker. A side issue of course I apologise

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Nomad answered this rather well already but I'll still make a few small additions. It's not a repression... it's just letting go. Not bragging. I've just been through a few situations where you either break down or break through. I don't see my position as being very 'Spock' -emotionless, etc. I'd like to think I'm the opposite, if anything.

Are the activities you described just for those with a death wish? They don't sound like the sort of thing someone who is afraid of dying would engage in. Those are the kind of things that someone does when they want to live life to the fullest and it's fear that holds us back. Isn't it?

"The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure that you seek." -Joseph Campbell

 

[Robert Lee]

Life and death are the same part of liveing. And death is the end to liveing. Those left behing mourn death they miss that living person. they are perhaps what makes death feared. I my self do not look at death as something I fear when it comes I probably will not know It. The people I new will though and Thats the only thing I wonder of How does one tell others not to mourn.

 

[someguy]

I'd say I'm not afraid to die. I don't really know. I haven't ever been near death. On my most shalllow level I am not afraid of death. I conciously don't fear death. Maybe when I must face it I will cower. Only time will tell.
As for a spiritual level. I have blind faith. really that is what faith is after all. It is blind. I can try to rationalize what I do not know. But, the purpose of faith is for the unknown isn't it? So blindly I am ready for death.

 

[John Brewer]

When a loved one dies we mourn for our selves. On a physical level I fear death because I love my life. I train in a church (the best of both worlds for me) and I have a great wife and son. But I know if I die I will be with the Lord. As Christians my family will mourn because they miss me and celebrate because I'm in a better place.

John

 

[Brother John]

So.... if you have ever performed that meditation or had a passing thought for your own death.... Q: are you afraid to die, afraid of the WAY you might die, afraid of the what after?

Thank you for sharing
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

The meditation you suggest is very useful in helping a person sort and prioritize their life!!!

I'm not afraid of death, nor of what's to follow it. My beliefs and faith lead me to believe that neither is to be feared.
The two things that DO concern me most about MY death:
1: WHEN? I have a family that counts on me a great deal. Two young children that need me in their life, a young....BEAUTIFUL wife that needs my support and wants my love. I don't want to leave until I MUST. I can't pass on to my other duties until I take full care of these. I'll just have to trust that Deity knows exactly when that will be!

2: HOW? I'd really rather not deteriorate and have an extremely LOW quality of life until I dwindle away. I'd also not want my death to be on the conscience of others (witnessed by loved ones, leaving emotional trauma or scars). I'd also REALLY like to not die from any kind of cruelty or victimization.

Interesting topic.
Thank you

Your Brother
John