Yoga?

[KennethKu]

"Medical Textbooks" is a bit vague. I understand the terms you've listed, but I haven't read a medical resource that has made the arguement that your muscles are already flexable, and that it is ONLY your nervous system that inhibits your flexability (although, I have heard that of neural inhibition as being one of several factors).

If it was only neural inhibition, then why would we pull muscles when we are stretched too far beyond our "neural inhibition."

Muscle tear occurs when the stretch reflex kicks in to protect the tendon, at the expense of the muscle. (Tendon tear takes fiorever to heal.) A muscle that is stretched too fast and/or far by an external force, will contract to oppose the stretch. A stretch + a contraction = muscle tear. It does not even have to be maximally stretched for the tear to occur. As soon as the nervous system sense a danger of tendon tear, the stretch reflex kicks in, triggering a contraction.

So, the objective is to strengthen the muscle and to tune down the stretch reflex. This is where relaxed stretching (yoga style) fails. Relaxed stretching does not strengthen the muscle. Isometric stretching strengthens the muscle. A strong muscle has less sensitive stretch reflex. There is less need for the nerve system to intervene as it senses that the muscle is strong enough to main control.

 

[KennethKu]

...The supremacy of Yoga rests not in its ability to redefine structure and function, but relationship. .......

This is getting into the ozone layer.

 

[loki09789]

Muscle tear occurs when the stretch reflex kicks in to protect the tendon, at the expense of the muscle. (Tendon tear takes fiorever to heal.) A muscle that is stretched too fast and/or far by an external force, will contract to oppose the stretch. A stretch + a contraction = muscle tear. It does not even have to be maximally stretched for the tear to occur. As soon as the nervous system sense a danger of tendon tear, the stretch reflex kicks in, triggering a contraction.

So, the objective is to strengthen the muscle and to tune down the stretch reflex. This is where relaxed stretching (yoga style) fails. Relaxed stretching does not strengthen the muscle. Isometric stretching strengthens the muscle. A strong muscle has less sensitive stretch reflex. There is less need for the nerve system to intervene as it senses that the muscle is strong enough to main control.

Dude take a yoga class and get a clue, they are always talking about opposition between the muscles (hamstring to quad, abdominals to lower back....). I don't know where you are getting your info about Yoga, but it is misinformation. Your clinical knowledge is sound, your yoga info is biased and inaccurate. Check out YOGAFIT about yoga practice as an example of the whole package.

 

[KennethKu]

I have no use for the watered down yoga as practiced today. The authentic yoga as practiced by the Black sect of the Tibetan Buddhism is the genuine yoga the purpose of which is to develope the human consciousness to a level that is yet to be comprehended by humanity in general.

The watered down yoga as commonly practiced today is little more than body exercise mixed with eastern myths and other new age hocus pocus.

If it helps you relax, good for you. If you believe it helps your MA performance, I am happy for you. But that does not change the cold hard fact that relaxed stretching is obsolete while isometric stretching works. Neither does it change the fact that yoga practices (or any practices for that matter) that twist your joints beyond their natural range of motion will do you harm.

Having said that, you can safely practice yoga or whatever that happens to fancy you , provided that you do not stretch your ligaments nor twist your joints to do things that they are not designed to perform.

 

[loki09789]

Oh here we go with the 'original source' vs. 'watered down/adaptations'..... I thought science was science and the rest was hocus pocus? Seems this type of self validation of what I do/know is superior to what you do/know isn't exclusive to martial art systems.

I suppose that the 'original' just popped out of Buddhas belly with no hint of evolutionary/outside influences - it just appeared. There is no such thing as original, only innovation/adaptation on a theme. Everything came from something. That is one of the basic tenets of Buddhism. What about the love? Watered down? How about adapted to make the message fit the audience? Flux and change are the only constants that I know of.

 

[Cruentus]

Muscle tear occurs when the stretch reflex kicks in to protect the tendon, at the expense of the muscle. (Tendon tear takes fiorever to heal.) A muscle that is stretched too fast and/or far by an external force, will contract to oppose the stretch. A stretch + a contraction = muscle tear. It does not even have to be maximally stretched for the tear to occur. As soon as the nervous system sense a danger of tendon tear, the stretch reflex kicks in, triggering a contraction.

So, the objective is to strengthen the muscle and to tune down the stretch reflex. This is where relaxed stretching (yoga style) fails. Relaxed stretching does not strengthen the muscle. Isometric stretching strengthens the muscle. A strong muscle has less sensitive stretch reflex. There is less need for the nerve system to intervene as it senses that the muscle is strong enough to main control.

Thanks for the explaination...now that makes sense to me (although i still believe that Yoga has benefits).

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

This is getting into the ozone layer.

How so? And, is that a bad thing? Moreover, is the Tibetan Black sect yoga the only yoga that expands Self? I seem to recall yogic texts written well beofre the introduction of the New Age video stuff, translated from Hindi and describing the different types of Yoga (physical, mental, spiritual, Siddhi-based; for Royals or Scholars only, etc.), practice objectives, and methods. And if I remember correctly, Yogic practices, along with Buddhism and supportive pantheistic mythologies, migrated from India to the top of the world, and not the other way around. That is not to say the Tibetans haven't figured out a way to do it better, but...

PS: Occasional trips into the ozone may be good for a mind that has difficulty deciding between the supremacy of objective over subjective (science), or subjective over objective (Yogh/Philosophy). There are places where the 2 are 1; where diametrically opposed poles spread so far from each other, that they round the corners of a sphere and merge, no? (Alan Watts: "Dualism is a single word, with the opposites being percieved by a single mind".)

Regards,

Dave

 

[KennethKu]

Oh here we go with the 'original source' vs. 'watered down/adaptations'..... I thought science was science and the rest was hocus pocus? Seems this type of self validation of what I do/know is superior to what you do/know isn't exclusive to martial art systems.

I suppose that the 'original' just popped out of Buddhas belly with no hint of evolutionary/outside influences - it just appeared. There is no such thing as original, only innovation/adaptation on a theme. Everything came from something. That is one of the basic tenets of Buddhism. What about the love? Watered down? How about adapted to make the message fit the audience? Flux and change are the only constants that I know of.

I read the texts on the original Yoga. I don't know how to translate the terms and concepts into English. Hence I can't explain to you in English. I can only tell you that Yoga as it was practiced, is NOT the stuff that is commonly practiced today. Yoga as commonly practiced today can only be described as totally watered down, butchered beyond recognition. I don't expect anyone to take my words for it. But fact is fact. Besides, the knowledge is so highly specific that it is next to impossible to discuss it with outsiders. Forgive me if this sounds condescending. That isn't my intent.

 

[KennethKu]

How so? And, is that a bad thing? Moreover, is the Tibetan Black sect yoga the only yoga that expands Self? I seem to recall yogic texts written well beofre the introduction of the New Age video stuff, translated from Hindi and describing the different types of Yoga (physical, mental, spiritual, Siddhi-based; for Royals or Scholars only, etc.), practice objectives, and methods. And if I remember correctly, Yogic practices, along with Buddhism and supportive pantheistic mythologies, migrated from India to the top of the world, and not the other way around. That is not to say the Tibetans haven't figured out a way to do it better, but...

PS: Occasional trips into the ozone may be good for a mind that has difficulty deciding between the supremacy of objective over subjective (science), or subjective over objective (Yogh/Philosophy). There are places where the 2 are 1; where diametrically opposed poles spread so far from each other, that they round the corners of a sphere and merge, no? (Alan Watts: "Dualism is a single word, with the opposites being percieved by a single mind".)

Regards,

Dave

Buddha, when he reached enlightenment, came to the conclusion that not all his trainings should be taugh to all his disciples. He was concerned about the misuse of power by scumballs among his followers. Those privy to his knowledge formed what is later known as the Black sect. (Needless to say, other sects/branches also claim that they are the true heirs.) This sect of Buddhism follows a "practical approach" to enlightenment. Their focus is the betterment of our lives on earth, (hardly original, I know) through the developement and use of "mantra power". This is about power to effect the outcome of events. (Yes, we are approaching the Ozone very fast). Yoga practices in the genuine forms, stimulate and develope the sources of this power. The developement of this power source does not involve faith. You don't have to become a Buddhist. Yet, when I read the mantra, I don't see how that can be accommodated. Anyhow, being a Christian and a scientist, I would like to see verifiable proof of all these claims. Still, so far, we know for a fact that the original yoga was not about getting fit nor flexibility nor relaxation.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Buddha, when he reached enlightenment, came to the conclusion that not all his trainings should be taugh to all his disciples. He was concerned about the misuse of power by scumballs among his followers. Those privy to his knowledge formed what is later known as the Black sect. (Needless to say, other sects/branches also claim that they are the true heirs.) This sect of Buddhism follows a "practical approach" to enlightenment. Their focus is the betterment of our lives on earth, (hardly original, I know) through the developement and use of "mantra power". This is about power to effect the outcome of events. (Yes, we are approaching the Ozone very fast). Yoga practices in the genuine forms, stimulate and develope the sources of this power. The developement of this power source does not involve faith. You don't have to become a Buddhist. Yet, when I read the mantra, I don't see how that can be accommodated. Anyhow, being a Christian and a scientist, I would like to see verifiable proof of all these claims. Still, so far, we know for a fact that the original yoga was not about getting fit nor flexibility nor relaxation.

Agreed about the flexibility piece. However, you have to admit, it was a side-benefit from the physical yogas that can translate into a performance benefit for martial artists. And, yes, the yoga taught today is not the same as the spiritual development practices of origin.

Physical development = calisthenics, weight training, MA, etc.
Spiritual development (enhancing the awareness of, and functionality of spiritual Self in daily living) = Yoga. Personally, fond of the contemplative approaches that lead to enhanced relationship with the divinity of the Self within the self...an idea, to be sure, in contrast with some of christianities basic tenets (original divinity, forgotten, versus original sin). Ramana Maharsi comes to mind (who am I, really?), and Paul Brunton did a fairly decent job of elucidating the concepts of philosophical yoga in Quest or the Overself and Wisdom of the Overself.

Namaste!

Dr. Dave

 

[loki09789]

I read the texts on the original Yoga. I don't know how to translate the terms and concepts into English. Hence I can't explain to you in English. I can only tell you that Yoga as it was practiced, is NOT the stuff that is commonly practiced today. Yoga as commonly practiced today can only be described as totally watered down, butchered beyond recognition. I don't expect anyone to take my words for it. But fact is fact. Besides, the knowledge is so highly specific that it is next to impossible to discuss it with outsiders. Forgive me if this sounds condescending. That isn't my intent.

Well, I am sure there is a text translation that is sufficient out there. It as been done reasonably well from Tao, Buddhism, Confusionism, Existentialism.... This should be no different.

I am amused by the 'outsider' language and the idea that fact is fact and not perception....from a self proclaimed Yogic practitioner of a 'true' way of self improvement. So much for the 'focus on the love' lessons of the Buddha...

There is also the many doors to the same room and kill the Buddha on the road stuff that is just as much a validation that variety allows access for all who seek to improve themselves - whether from the 'true' way or some other path. Hell, even Christians have tied into the Buddhist philosophical doctrines as enriching their Christian spiritual growth. Not a big group, but it is there.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Well, I am sure there is a text translation that is sufficient out there. It as been done reasonably well from Tao, Buddhism, Confusionism, Existentialism.... This should be no different.

I am amused by the 'outsider' language and the idea that fact is fact and not perception....from a self proclaimed Yogic practitioner of a 'true' way of self improvement. So much for the 'focus on the love' lessons of the Buddha...

There is also the many doors to the same room and kill the Buddha on the road stuff that is just as much a validation that variety allows access for all who seek to improve themselves - whether from the 'true' way or some other path. Hell, even Christians have tied into the Buddhist philosophical doctrines as enriching their Christian spiritual growth. Not a big group, but it is there.

Well put. I'm sure the Amida Buddha would agree. But wait...it won't matter, because he may not be the one true buddha!

Novel idea: What if we/they are all wrong, and the nature of spirit has yet to be revealed to any founder or follower of any path? What if all the mystics and sages through the ages just share a common, chemically induced hallucination that's nothing more than a predictable storm of brain hormones? What if meditative and spiritual practices are unnecessary self-induced mini-deaths that reveal nothing that won't become all-known to all upon dying, anyway?

Being an annoyance,

Dave.

 

[loki09789]

Well put. I'm sure the Amida Buddha would agree. But wait...it won't matter, because he may not be the one true buddha!

Novel idea: What if we/they are all wrong, and the nature of spirit has yet to be revealed to any founder or follower of any path? What if all the mystics and sages through the ages just share a common, chemically induced hallucination that's nothing more than a predictable storm of brain hormones? What if meditative and spiritual practices are unnecessary self-induced mini-deaths that reveal nothing that won't become all-known to all upon dying, anyway?

Being an annoyance,

Dave.

This reminds me of the 'single source, multiple diffusion' explanation of folk legends, creation myths, motif/literary elements.... same biology, multiple interpretations of ritualistic needs, interpretations of images based on local animals of opportunity to turn into anamistic icons....

You are a pain, but fun

 

[KennethKu]

Well, I am sure there is a text translation that is sufficient out there. It as been done reasonably well from Tao, Buddhism, Confusionism, Existentialism.... This should be no different.

I am amused by the 'outsider' language and the idea that fact is fact and not perception....from a self proclaimed Yogic practitioner of a 'true' way of self improvement. So much for the 'focus on the love' lessons of the Buddha...

There is also the many doors to the same room and kill the Buddha on the road stuff that is just as much a validation that variety allows access for all who seek to improve themselves - whether from the 'true' way or some other path. Hell, even Christians have tied into the Buddhist philosophical doctrines as enriching their Christian spiritual growth. Not a big group, but it is there.

There may very well be a reasonably good translation, but it is not my priority to be preoccupied with locating it. Look into the Black sect of Buddhism. There may be good info there.

What I have posted is factual. Whether anyone accepts it, is of little concern to me. I share the info, people are free to take it anyway they prefer.

I am not a yoga practitioner, nor a Buddhist. My objective in practicing MA is to prevail in combat. Anything that does not add value to fighting power and skills, is of little interest.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

There may very well be a reasonably good translation, but it is not my priority to be preoccupied with locating it. Look into the Black sect of Buddhism. There may be good info there.

What I have posted is factual. Whether anyone accepts it, is of little concern to me. I share the info, people are free to take it anyway they prefer.

I am not a yoga practitioner, nor a Buddhist. My objective in practicing MA is to prevail in combat. Anything that does not add value to fighting power and skills, is of little interest.

Spoken like a true dogmatist. Yep, that whole thing, again.