Xu YuSheng Yang style Taijiquan

[Jin Gang]

http://brennantranslation.wordpress.com/2012/08/27/the-taiji-manual-of-xu-yusheng/

Does anyone practice Yang style from Xu YuSheng's lineage? I was intrigued by the version of the form presented here. Does anyone's Yang style form perform the double kick after plant the fist and turn and chop/swinging fist, like listed here in Xu YuSheng's (and like Chen yi lu?) I have only practiced Yang Cheng Fu lineage, and all the Yang I've seen from anywhere does not have the double kick, it has deflect parry and punch after the swinging/chopping fist.

 

[Xue Sheng]

It has been a long day and for some reason I cannot visualize this and I can't go tgive it a try because my knees will not allow it I shall think about it and possibly in the meantime someone else will come along whose brain is working. But I can say there are 3 kicks pretty close together in the Yang style as it comes from Tung Ying Chieh

In the meantime I got this

From What I am reading Xu Yushing's main teacher was Yang Jianhou and if that is true that is rare and not the same Yang you would learn from the Yang family today. What is taught today is the form as it comes from Yang Chengfu who was Yang Jinahou's youngest son. As soon as Yang Shouhou was old enough and skilled enough to teach Jianhou pretty much stopped teaching and sent everyone to Shouhou and then when Yang Chengfu was old enough anad skiled enough to teach he stated sending all to Yang Chengfu. Yang Shouhou was alleged to be very tough on his students so there are not many of those around either.

Also if it is from Yang Jianhou it would be closer to what was done by Yang Luchan scein Yang Jianhou was his son. However it is suspected that Yang Jianhou changed his father’s form so it would not be the same.

Yang Luchan learned from Chen Changxing

Something else to consider Xu Yusheng was allegedly born into a martial arts family and started training Martial Arts at the age of 6 and he also studied other styles prior to training Yang style taijiquan so in the end it is likely all of that influenced his Yang style

This is what I found for Yang family Xu style

 

[Jin Gang]

Yeah, I saw that video, too. It starts up right after the section where the double kick would be, grr! lol I have seen videos of others claiming Yang JianHou lineage, but I haven't seen the double kick anywhere (except in in Chen Laojia). I know the three kicks section, right after the first high pat on horse (or probably more accurately translated as mounted scout). Then there's the kick, turn the body around 360 and kick after striking the temples. But this double kick is listed in the form exactly where it would be in the equivalent section in Chen laojia yi lu, after planting the fist, turn and chopping with the fist.


The section I'm talking about starts around 5:55 on this video of Chen Laojia Yi Lu: cloud hands, high pat on horse, separate right leg, separate left leg, turn and thrust left leg, brush knee x2, plant the fist, turn and swing the fist, *double kick*, deflect parry and punch.

For reference, here is a Yang 108 video that starts at the same place, right after the first cloud hands section, single whip, high pat on horse, separate the legs, turn and kick, brush past knee, plant fist (except he does a low punch instead of the planting fist there), turn and swinging fist, then deflect parry and punch

In Xu Yusheng's published form, he doesn't do a jump like in Chen style, but two kicks in succession, however in the application he describes hopping to the other foot after the first kick.

DOUBLE KICK means your feet, left then right, lift and kick in succession.
（動作）有二、（一）捋手前踢、（二）落步前踢
Two movements:
1. Roll back with your

hand and kick forward.​

2. Step down and kick forward.
（圖解）（一）由前翻身彆身鎚式。左手屈肘仰掌收回。貼於左肋。右手前伸。（同撲面掌）左腿前踢。如彈腿式 。（二）左足落下。兩手由右上方。向左下方下捋。左足甫及地時。右足提起前踢。兩臂前伸。兩掌 拍右脚背。
Explanation for the drawing:
1. From TURN AROUND, FLINGING BODY PUNCH, your left hand, the elbow bending, withdraws with the palm up to be near your left ribs, while your right hand extends forward (same as in a palm strike to the face) and your left leg kicks forward (similar to the snapping kick of Tantui).
2. Your left foot comes down while your hands roll back from the upper right to the lower left. Right when your left foot comes down, your right foot lifts and kicks forward, your arms extending forward, both palms slapping the back of your right foot.

Points for attention:
The path [of your hands] in the second movement should make an arc.
（應用）敵用左拳當胸擊來。卽以左手進握其腕。以右手迎撲其面。乘其不意。起左腿踢之。設敵退避或下格吾足 時。則復躍起換右腿踢之。
Application:
The opponent uses his left fist to punch my chest, so I send my left hand forward to grab his wrist and strike his face with my right hand, capitalizing on the surprise by kicking him with my left leg. If he retreats or blocks my foot, I then hop to change feet and kick him once more, now with my right foot.




​

 

[Xue Sheng]

I would call it a jump kick but no I have not seen that in any other Yang Lineage long form, that does not mean it is not in any other it just means I have not seen it. However, as I previously said. Xu YuSheng trained other styles before he trained Yang style. I have seen this in other lineages that had prior training in other styles. The Yang long form of Kwan Sai Hung has turns in it that are closer to Bagua than traditional Yang. Tung Ying Chieh trained Hao style prior to training with Yang Chengfu and the Traditional Yang that I do is done with a slightly lower stance than what the Yang family does today. Also Tung Ying Chieh wrote a book as well and he breaks up the 10 essences into 12 so things can vary from teacher to teacher.

Heck Li Tianji trained with Yang Chengfu and he pretty much came up with 24 form. But then Li Tanji was more of a Xingyiquan guy that a Taijiquan guy.

 

[sicko]

I didn't know Yang style Tai Chi have kicks and punches (fajins in general) too before I saw this post. I was sure it was exclusively for Chen style. We do the double kick in Chen's first old form.

 

[sicko]

I did post too soon. I did see the videos now. Yang style does have punches and kicks, but id doesn't have Fajins. Sorry... I'm kind of new in TC in learning about it every day

 

[Xue Sheng]

I did post too soon. I did see the videos now. Yang style does have punches and kicks, but id doesn't have Fajins. Sorry... I'm kind of new in TC in learning about it every day

Actually it does have fajin, it just is not as obvious as the fajin you see in Chen. And Chen, Zhaobao, Yang, Wu (Northern and Southern), Wu/Hao and Sun all have punches, kicks and fajin...they also all have qinna and Shuaijiao to varying degrees too.

 

[oaktree]

The double kick in Laojia doesn't always have to have a jump in it. In fact a modified version is taught with no jump.
Also the little jump to the form after the kick is another may be another modification as I was shown another way to do it as well but I prefer the jump. Chen Xiaowang was asked about this jump kick as I believe he taught it once without the jump.
He was asked isn't this suppose to be a jump kick? He said you want to jump right? So he started doing Jump kicks like alot of them.

 

[sicko]

That's true. One version of Xiaowang is without jump. It is ment for studying the frame. Usually it is with the jump, but as long as you follow the principles, it's ok if you step down aswell.

 

[Blaze Dragon]

never heard of xu yusheng yang style, is it vastly different from yang style? the only taiji forms I've been taught by my sifu that are called yang style do not have any jump kicks. The one we call Chen does have a double jump front kick type of technique. there is also a jump trap kick as well in our chen.

 

[clfsean]

never heard of xu yusheng yang style, is it vastly different from yang style? the only taiji forms I've been taught by my sifu that are called yang style do not have any jump kicks. The one we call Chen does have a double jump front kick type of technique. there is also a jump trap kick as well in our chen.

What you do for "Yang" is PRC 24 & Chen Man Ching's 37 step. Neither of those are proper Yang family forms. They are built from it. What you do for Chen is a take on Chen's Xinjia Yilu.

 

[Blaze Dragon]

What you do for "Yang" is PRC 24 & Chen Man Ching's 37 step. Neither of those are proper Yang family forms. They are built from it. What you do for Chen is a take on Chen's Xinjia Yilu.

To be more specific what I've learned so far from my school are the following

These are our "Yang style" forms I've learned.
--24 posture “Peking Style” simplified Tai-Chi form (T'ai Chi Ar Se Se' Tse')
--Tai-Chi Chien (Taijiquan jian) Yang 2 Edge Straight Sword Form
--Yang 64 Movement “Short Form” Tai-Chi Ch’uan (Taijiquan)(37 Postures)
--Yang Style T’ai Chi BroadswordYang Se Tai Chi Tao 38 postures (Taijiquan Sabre) "Tai Ji Dao" solo form

These are our "Chen Style" forms I've learned
--Tai-Chi “Iron Fan” Chen Style 36 Posture form "Tai Chi San Se Liu Se"
--New Generation/Frame 83 Posture Chen T’ai Chi

I can not argue if they are "proper Yang family forms" or not. As my only exposure to Taiji is from my school, my only other exposure is what I find in books and online. However I am very happen with what I am learning so all is good

In these forms, our Chen 83 has the kicks I mentioned, also our Yang Broadsword has a jump kick in it (I'm still learning very new to it)

I'm not certain if we are the only ones that do it the way my school does it or not. However because I've never learned yang forms with jump kicks or double kicks I was curious since the post mentioned is about Xu Yusheng yang.

I would like to start learning a bit more history on Taji and the different variations of how it's practiced

 

[clfsean]

To be more specific what I've learned so far from my school are the following

These are our "Yang style" forms I've learned.
--24 posture “Peking Style” simplified Tai-Chi form (T'ai Chi Ar Se Se' Tse')
--Tai-Chi Chien (Taijiquan jian) Yang 2 Edge Straight Sword Form
--Yang 64 Movement “Short Form” Tai-Chi Ch’uan (Taijiquan)(37 Postures)
--Yang Style T’ai Chi BroadswordYang Se Tai Chi Tao 38 postures (Taijiquan Sabre) "Tai Ji Dao" solo form

These are our "Chen Style" forms I've learned
--Tai-Chi “Iron Fan” Chen Style 36 Posture form "Tai Chi San Se Liu Se"
--New Generation/Frame 83 Posture Chen T’ai Chi

I can not argue if they are "proper Yang family forms" or not. As my only exposure to Taiji is from my school, my only other exposure is what I find in books and online. However I am very happen with what I am learning so all is good

In these forms, our Chen 83 has the kicks I mentioned, also our Yang Broadsword has a jump kick in it (I'm still learning very new to it)

I'm not certain if we are the only ones that do it the way my school does it or not. However because I've never learned yang forms with jump kicks or double kicks I was curious since the post mentioned is about Xu Yusheng yang.

I would like to start learning a bit more history on Taji and the different variations of how it's practiced

*sigh*

Ok... your definitions...

-- 24 posture “Peking Style” simplified Tai-Chi form (T'ai Chi Ar Se Se' Tse') --> PRC 24 -- Not Yang but Yang inspired.
-- Yang 64 Movement “Short Form” Tai-Chi Ch’uan (Taijiquan)(37 Postures) --> Chen Man Ching's 37 -- Not Yang but Yang inspired. In his own words, CMC was too lazy to do the proper 108 form.
-- New Generation/Frame 83 Posture Chen T’ai Chi --> Chen Xinjia Yilu

Weapons... dime a dozen, but if they don't follow proper mechanics, it doesn't matter.

 

[Xue Sheng]

A good friend of mine teaches the Chen Manching stuff and I also saw a TT Liang do the form not to long before he passed away. Also I briefly did a version of it that came from William CC Chen and the biggest difference I felt, other than being shorter, was it seemed to emphasize a different part of the posture that traditional Yang did, that is in the William CC Chen version as for the one more directly from Chen Manching it just looked too relaxed but I have never trained it so take my opinion on that for what it is worth

 

[Blaze Dragon]

*sigh*

Ok... your definitions...

-- 24 posture “Peking Style” simplified Tai-Chi form (T'ai Chi Ar Se Se' Tse') --> PRC 24 -- Not Yang but Yang inspired.
-- Yang 64 Movement “Short Form” Tai-Chi Ch’uan (Taijiquan)(37 Postures) --> Chen Man Ching's 37 -- Not Yang but Yang inspired. In his own words, CMC was too lazy to do the proper 108 form.
-- New Generation/Frame 83 Posture Chen T’ai Chi --> Chen Xinjia Yilu

Weapons... dime a dozen, but if they don't follow proper mechanics, it doesn't matter.

gotca, I was not familiar with the names you where using. Just wanted to make sure we where on the same page. Still interested on what Xu yusheng yang is.

 

[oaktree]

Wtf is the chen jump trap kick? Can you number it or pin yin or
Hanzi dear god no wade Giles.

 

[Blaze Dragon]

Wtf is the chen jump trap kick? Can you number it or pin yin or
Hanzi dear god no wade Giles.

Hmmm don't know if I can off the top of my head. it's more of a skip trap kick.

2:16

instead of a step we take the right foot and do a trap kick before putting the foot down.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I am looking for the characters but I think the pinyin is Ti Er Qi or Er Qi Jiao but I am getting that from a website I am not 100% sure of. I have the posture names of Laojia Yilu in English/Pinyin/Chinese characters someplace

 

[Xue Sheng]

Forget the above post I found what it is called in pinyin

From Chen Zhenglei it is "Xuan Feng Jiao" - Tornado Kick or Whirlwind Kick

Still looking for the characters

 

[oaktree]

I watched the video at the 2:16 mark, That is in Laojia Yi Lu as well I was told it was a stomp and is a transition step. There a couple of stomps in Laojia Yi Lu and some people teach those little jump steps to one foot others do not and still others modify.
At the 7:00-7:05. I guess Chen people like to stomp alot actually, Chen Xiaowang says he is not stomping he is punching the ground with his foot what ever that means.