Wtf

[msmitht]

First you say that if a School teaches Palgwe, they are No Longer KKW Standard, even if its just in Addition. And are a Mini-Org.Then, agree with miguksaram, with the Response, "Exactly", to his Reply;"What I am saying, is that for a school to be considered a KKW TKD school, they must utilizing the basic standards set forth by the KKW, which includes Taeguk as the forms required to advance in rank. If they are not, then they should not consider themselves a KKW style school. Anything else that they teach outside of the standards set by KKW is totally up to the individual school."In other words, first you are saying that a School is no longer KKW if it teaches Palgwe, even in addition.Then agree that "Anything else they Teach OUTSIDE of the Standards by the KKW is Totally up to the Individual School."

Never said they were no longer a kkw school. Said the palgwe forms we're no longer required by kkw

 

[Cyriacus]

First you say that if a School teaches Palgwe, they are No Longer KKW Standard, even if its just in Addition. And are a Mini-Org.Then, agree with miguksaram, with the Response, "Exactly", to his Reply;"What I am saying, is that for a school to be considered a KKW TKD school, they must utilizing the basic standards set forth by the KKW, which includes Taeguk as the forms required to advance in rank. If they are not, then they should not consider themselves a KKW style school. Anything else that they teach outside of the standards set by KKW is totally up to the individual school."In other words, first you are saying that a School is no longer KKW if it teaches Palgwe, even in addition.Then agree that "Anything else they Teach OUTSIDE of the Standards by the KKW is Totally up to the Individual School."
Ok, I get it now. What I meant was you will never be required to perform the palgwe forms For kukkiwon promotion. Individual schools can teach what they want and can be kkw schools but taeguek, yondanja poomsae, kyroogi and kyuk pa are the only requirements that the kkw grades on. Whatever an instructor adds on is up to them but is not a part of kkw tkd.Does that clarify? I can see how you may have read it wrong.*

*Just for any other Readers, to clarify that the Underlined and Not Bold Text is his Reply, and not my Reply

Well, what you Meant and Said are evidently a touch different. Fair enough;

Never said they were no longer a kkw school. Said the palgwe forms we're no longer required by kkw

You do realise im quoting You...

No, they are not. I have been to 3 master instructor courses (2 here, 1 in korea) and 4 poomsae seminars put on by the kukkiwon. Not once did we talk about or practice the Palgwe forms. If your school still does them then so be it. They are not part of Kukkiwon TKD anymore.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I don't think it is a contradiction. I am the same as msmitht, it's not because I think other forms are worse - just that I don't enjoy watching them as much as for me it's in the technical details not in the "performance". So I cannot judge technical details as well in poomsae I do not know. It doesn't make me closed minded, just that as a personal preference I prefer watching forms I know (and hence with a limited amount of cash, I choose those).

I flattery myself that I can tell if a technique is executed cleanly and powerfully regardless of knowing if it's the correct move for that form. I wouldn't score such a competition, but I'd certainly attend. And enjoy the forms, even (maybe especially...) the ones I don't know.

 

[Dirty Dog]

No they do not. What I have an open mind about food but I refuse to eat brussel sprouts nor will I order any dinner that has brussel sprouts in it. Why, because I have tasted brussel sprouts and do not like the taste. Does this make me closed minded?

He has been to enough tournaments where Palgwe or other forms are allowed to be used and has developed a distaste for how they are ran. So he just avoids those types of tournaments. He is open minded, he just does not like certain things based on what he experienced in the past.

Nobody is asking him to eat (learn/practice) the brussel sprouts (forms).

I'm also willing to bet that you would still eat in a restaurant that serves brussel sprouts. Refusing to eat (compete with) the brussel sprouts (forms) is entirely reasonable. Refusing to go to a restaurant (tournament) simply because they allow brussel sprouts (Palgwe forms) is, I think, close minded.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I believe he said that they are obsolete and rendered useless outside of the school or organization that you might be with. While they may still be in use in some open tournaments, they are still obsolete forms when it comes to KKW standards.

And, as I said, there is life (and Tae Kwon Do) outside the narrow scope of the Kukkiwon. And knowledge is NEVER obsolete.

This is no different than for me to go out and learning pascal programming. While it may be worth learning, it is not widely used nor does it help as much as opposed to learning 'C' language.

Oh ick. C++ and Javascript...

How is he denying karate's influence? Just because you don't practice 'karate' life forms you deny the roots? Are you saying a doctor not using leeches is denying the influence of mid-evil development of medicine? Modern practice, modern development of poomsae.

Leeches are still used. So are maggots. So are Palgwes.

Of course, advances in medical science reflect new discoverys and new technologies. The same cannot reasonably be said of a set of forms. Especially when both sets were developed by much the same people, and use the same technical standards. The only difference, fundamentally, is the order in which techniques are performed.

I notice you have a TSD logo. I will assume you practice all chuan'fa and Shotokan forms as well as your TSD forms so not to deny it roots?

It's a Moo Duk Kwan logo. I personally practice the Kicho, Palgwe, Taegeuk, Yudanja and Chang Hon forms. I'd certainly not be opposed to learning others.

They may be accepted, but how many people utilize them? Being a part of NASKA and AKA I have rarely seen Palgwe forms used in open tournaments. However, I do see Gaebaek and Koryo done a lot.

So since they're not as common they're not worth learning? I don't think you'll ever convince me of that.

 

[Indie12]

you do know that the kkw and wtf stopped doing palgwe forms a LONG time ago, don't you?

Mainly ITF that does them now!

 

[msmitht]

*Just for any other Readers, to clarify that the Underlined and Not Bold Text is his Reply, and not my Reply Well, what you Meant and Said are evidently a touch different. Fair enough;You do realise im quoting You...

you do realize that you are misunderstanding me. When I say "they are not part of kkw taekwondo anymore" the "they" I am referring to is the PALGWE forms! I enjoy this conversation but am finding it a bit annoyingg that I have to keep repeating myself.Now run along and read something else...

 

[Cyriacus]

you do realize that you are misunderstanding me. When I say "they are not part of kkw taekwondo anymore" the "they" I am referring to is the PALGWE forms! I enjoy this conversation but am finding it a bit annoyingg that I have to keep repeating myself.Now run along and read something else...

Just to Clarify, I do know this, now that youve Clarified it. But if you read what you said without already knowing what your Intentions of the Statements were, each could be Read a couple of ways. Hence; "What You Meant, And Said, Are Evidently A Touch Different". Because the obvious Interpritations of each Statement is, in fact, different to your Intention. And I wasnt the only one who Interprited them that way.

 

[Dirty Dog]

you do realize that you are misunderstanding me. When I say "they are not part of kkw taekwondo anymore" the "they" I am referring to is the PALGWE forms! I enjoy this conversation but am finding it a bit annoyingg that I have to keep repeating myself.

"You do realise" that "not part of" and "not required" are not the same thing, don't you?
The Palgwe forms were developed by the Kukkiwon and will always be a part of Kukki Tae Kwon do, even if not a required part.

(Condescending insult deleted.)

 

[Cyriacus]

"You do realise" that "not part of" and "not required" are not the same thing, don't you?
The Palgwe forms were developed by the Kukkiwon and will always be a part of Kukki Tae Kwon do, even if not a required part.

(Condescending insult deleted.)

I Literally just Alt+Tabbed out of a Program I was running to say Exactly the Same thing.


In Addition, "They are not part of Kukkiwon TKD anymore."
He said this IMMEDIATELY after, "If your school still does them then so be it."

Which Obviously reads as, the Schools not being a part of KKW TKD anymore.
I suppose My point, is that even if his Intentions were Otherwise, it was Communicated Poorly.

*To clarify, im not saying this part to you, Dirty Dog;
Repeat yourself though you will - We all get that youre trying to say that what you were saying is different to how it was Read.
I realise this.
Im saying, that this could have been Avoided.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Mainly ITF that does them now!

Actually, no. The ITF (and it's offshoots) generally practice the Chang Hon Tul.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

In Addition, "They are not part of Kukkiwon TKD anymore."
He said this IMMEDIATELY after, "If your school still does them then so be it."

Which Obviously reads as, the Schools not being a part of KKW TKD anymore.

Your logic is flawed. For example, pushups are not part of Kukkiwon TKD, but many schools do them. So long as the school does the Kukkiwon minimum curriculum, I would say they are Kukkiwon TKD.

 

[msmitht]

You guys know perfectly well what i meant and re arranging words or pointing out my flawed grammer just makes you guys look petty. I am done with this post and with you. ignored...ignored...ignored! now I feel a lot better

 

[NSRTKD]

Well I am thoroughly confused. Can someone help me out with a ridiculous task...Which forms are palgwe and which are Chang hon tul, and which are whatever-the-other-one is?? If there's a link, tp be simple, i would greatly appreciate it.Our style is kind of a blend of two, in some ways, so I'm wondering which forms fall into which category. Sorry to be totally clueless and obnoxious!

 

[Cyriacus]

Your logic is flawed. For example, pushups are not part of Kukkiwon TKD, but many schools do them. So long as the school does the Kukkiwon minimum curriculum, I would say they are Kukkiwon TKD.

I Assume you Quoted Me to Reply to Him

You guys know perfectly well what i meant and re arranging words or pointing out my flawed grammer just makes you guys look petty. I am done with this post and with you. ignored...ignored...ignored! now I feel a lot better

Ignore us then.
But it doesnt change the fact that only YOU KNEW what YOU meant to say. If you want to blame us for taking you seriously, and assuming you meant everything you said, and that we are the idiots for not reading your Sentences in a different order to how YOU typed them, so be it.

I never Re-Arranged ANY of your Words. I ONLY Quoted YOU Directly.
And when so many People come to the same Conclusion, well, im glad you think its a big Conspiracy to make ourselves all Petty.
Have Fun with that.

Enough Said.

 

[msmitht]

The tul are the original hyung (chong gi, dan gun, do san, won yo, yul gook, etc) created for itf tkd. The palgwe, I believe, were created for the wtf before the taeguek poomsae. Not too sure about the history of palgwe except that in the 80's they were removed from the required curriculum for advancement in kukkiwon tkd.Many old school gm's kept teaching them and passed the tradition on which is why you may still see them at tourneys. They are not allowed in competition at official usat/wtf sanctioned events(state championship, national qualifiers, nationals and international events).

 

[msmitht]

No, THEY are not. I have been to 3 master instructor courses (2 here, 1 in korea) and 4 poomsae seminars put on by the kukkiwon. Not once did we talk about or practice the Palgwe forms. If your school still does THEM then so be it. THEY are not part of Kukkiwon TKD anymore.

Now then, let's look at the whole post that those I have now "ignored" keep quoting. "If your school still does them then so be it". The word "them" was a reference towards the palgwe forms. "They are not part of kukkiwon tkd anymore". The first word, "they", was a reference to "them" which was in reference to the palgwe forms set.

 

[NSRTKD]

The tul are the original hyung (chong gi, dan gun, do san, won yo, yul gook, etc) created for itf tkd. The palgwe, I believe, were created for the wtf before the taeguek poomsae. Not too sure about the history of palgwe except that in the 80's they were removed from the required curriculum for advancement in kukkiwon tkd.Many old school gm's kept teaching them and passed the tradition on which is why you may still see them at tourneys. They are not allowed in competition at official usat/wtf sanctioned events(state championship, national qualifiers, nationals and international events).

Can you give me any names of the palgwe? I ask because our style follows some ITF patterns and some WTF patterns, and I think something different, but I'm not sure if "palgwe" fits...

 

[msmitht]

Can you give me any names of the palgwe? I ask because our style follows some ITF patterns and some WTF patterns, and I think something different, but I'm not sure if "palgwe" fits...

Palgwe 1-8. I do not believe that they have individual names. WTF pattern names are Taeguek 1-8 plus korryo, geumgang, taebaek, pyongwon, shipjin, jitae, cheonkwon, hansoo and illyo.
smoe instructors do the older, Japanese /Okinawan style (TSD) forms like bassai, kusanku(Kanku dai) and nahanchi(Tekki)

 

[Archtkd]

Well I am thoroughly confused. Can someone help me out with a ridiculous task...Which forms are palgwe and which are Chang hon tul, and which are whatever-the-other-one is?? If there's a link, tp be simple, i would greatly appreciate it.Our style is kind of a blend of two, in some ways, so I'm wondering which forms fall into which category. Sorry to be totally clueless and obnoxious!

Why don't you simply ask your teacher what forms he/she is teaching you?