WT / ITF demographics

[Dirty Dog]

Let's try it this way. Without the Kukkiwon there would be no WT(F). Same body, different arms and legs.

I disagree. The KKW exists to promote TKD as it arose from the unification movement. The WT exists to supervise the sport of Olympic sparring.
The WT exists only because the Olympic Committee has (for now...) included TKD as an Olympic sport. The KTA (the KKW didn't exist at the time...) was a powerful lobby for the initial inclusion in the Olympics (but certainly not the only one), but it's this inclusion in the Olympics without which the WT (or another organization to do the same thing) would not exist. Without the KKW, but with TKD in the Olympics, the WT (or whatever name they chose) would still have come into existence.
Different bodies. Different goals. Different purposes. Different addresses (they're both in Seoul, but something like an hour apart...). Different employees. Different, well, pretty near everything.

 

[dvcochran]

My school is sort of an odd mix. For forms, we start with three basic forms called Tiger 1,2,and 3. They are based on Tang Soo Do's Ki Cho forms. Tiger 1 is identical to Ki Cho 1; Tiger 2 and 3 are slight variations of Ki Cho 2 and 3.
Next, we start learning the Taegeuk forms. At red belt, we start learning the Palgwe forms. Palgwe 1 is learned at the same time as Taegeuk 7, and Palgwe 2 is in conjunction with Taegeuk 8.
The Palgwe forms continue into the black belt levels. Palgwe 8 is learned at 2nd Dan, after you learn Keumgang.
At 3rd Dan, we start the ITF forms. Again, 3rd Dans start with the KKW form, Taebaek, then move on to Chon Ji, etc.
We use WT sparring rules. Our competition team mostly competes in USAT sanctioned events, although recently they've been going to AAU tournaments as well.
In addition to forms, one-steps, self-defense, and sparring- we also do weapons training at the black-belt level.
Our black belts are issued KKW certificates (if you want to pay for it. Personally, I only have a school certificate, so I'm not "Officially" a black belt outside of my school.) Our Grand Master is a KKW 7th Dan.
So, what are we? I'd say we're an independent school that follows the KKW curriculum, but adds to it.

That is a lot of forms. As you increase in rank do you regularly go back and practice the lower forms? We practice 3 basic forms, 5 Pyong An, 8 Palgwae, 8 Taeguek, the 8 KKW black belt forms, 3 Nahachi forms, Kong Sang Gung and probably a few I forgot. So we do are a consolidation as well and "officially" we are a WTF dojang. Especially, BB can and do get exposure to all the forms wherever they are in their belt progression. Put proof proficiency follows a specific set of requirements. This seems help with burnout as long as, as instructors, we make sure there is a difference between learning the moves and learning for poomse.

 

[dvcochran]

I disagree. The KKW exists to promote TKD as it arose from the unification movement. The WT exists to supervise the sport of Olympic sparring.
The WT exists only because the Olympic Committee has (for now...) included TKD as an Olympic sport. The KTA (the KKW didn't exist at the time...) was a powerful lobby for the initial inclusion in the Olympics (but certainly not the only one), but it's this inclusion in the Olympics without which the WT (or another organization to do the same thing) would not exist. Without the KKW, but with TKD in the Olympics, the WT (or whatever name they chose) would still have come into existence.
Different bodies. Different goals. Different purposes. Different addresses (they're both in Seoul, but something like an hour apart...). Different employees. Different, well, pretty near everything.

Do you remember the USTU (US tae kwon do union?) Early on when TKD was a demonstration sport the IOC and KTA had issue with TKD using their moniker (stateside at least). I am not sure of all the politics. When I was competing for 1988 it was difficult just to figure out who/what/where to keep certified to compete. WT(F) finally solidified as the governing body to interact and interface with the IOC. There is a new acronym in use instead of IOC but I do not remember it or what exactly it purpose is. Clearly the WT continues to evolve. Who knows if it is the healthy process of learning from your mistakes or just more politics.

 

[Rough Rider]

That is a lot of forms. As you increase in rank do you regularly go back and practice the lower forms?.

Yes. Personally, I practice every form I know at least once a week. We have black belt testing every 6 months and every black belt is tested whether they are up for advancement or not. All of the forms are done at these tests.




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[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Yes. Personally, I practice every form I know at least once a week. We have black belt testing every 6 months and every black belt is tested whether they are up for advancement or not. All of the forms are done at these tests.

How many black belts are there at your school? What happens if one of them can't make the test (work/away/injured/etc.)? That sounds logistically like it would be tough to coordinate that they would all have the exact same day free for testing.

 

[Rough Rider]

How many black belts are there at your school?

About 30

What happens if one of them can't make the test (work/away/injured/etc.)?

One simply needs to speak to the Grandmaster to be excused.

That sounds logistically like it would be tough to coordinate that they would all have the exact same day free for testing.

We know the dates well ahead of time, so we all do our best to be there. I've missed a couple due to injury; Others have missed due to work commitments. Overall, we have a pretty good turnout.

 

[WaterGal]

Business is business. You have to sell using words and expressions people understand. I'm told many TKD places used to be "Korean Karate", for example.

Heck, my old (KKW 7th Dan) Korean teacher's marquee sign still just says "Karate". When a school tells prospective customers that they teach "World Taekwondo Federation style TKD", that's not technically correct, but it conveys the spirit of the thing they're trying to say - that they're affiliated with a major international martial arts organization with a certain general curriculum, so little Billy will be able to continue his training in a similar fashion even if the family has to move.

 

[WaterGal]

Making a guestimate from the ATA website, I'm guessing that about 250,000 of those U.S. taekwondoins are practicing ATA style. Reference: https://ataonline.com/schools/

That leaves us with 2,066,800 taekwondoins in the U.S. practicing something other than ATA style.

Let's assume that 20% of those taekwondoins are practicing some independent style (maybe based on old Korean Karate), and the other 80% are practicing either Chang Hon for Taegeuk/Palgwae forms.

Let's further assume that the ratio of KKW/ITF ration is 5:1 as the above informal pool seems to indicate. Then that means:

• about 250K taekwondoins in the U.S. are practicing ATA style
• about 413K taekwondoins in the U.S. are practicing some independent style
• about 275K taekwondoins in the U.S. are practicing some version of ITF style
• about 1,378K taekwondoins in the U.S. are practicing Kukkiwon style

Again, take those numbers with a larger grain of salt...there's a lot of assumptions in there.

I'd guess that the proportion of non-KKW/ITF/ATA TKD schools in the US may be higher than 20%, but it's hard to know. I'm sure it varies enormously by area, too.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

About 30


One simply needs to speak to the Grandmaster to be excused.


We know the dates well ahead of time, so we all do our best to be there. I've missed a couple due to injury; Others have missed due to work commitments. Overall, we have a pretty good turnout.

That makes more sense. I was thinking that it was a mandatory thing in order to keep your belt.

 

[TrueJim]

I'd guess that the proportion of non-KKW/ITF/ATA TKD schools in the US may be higher than 20%, but it's hard to know. I'm sure it varies enormously by area, too.

Yah, that 20% number is the most unsubstantiated guess in that sequence of calculations.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Yes. Personally, I practice every form I know at least once a week. We have black belt testing every 6 months and every black belt is tested whether they are up for advancement or not. All of the forms are done at these tests.

Is there a fee for this?



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[skribs]

I get that Kukkiwon and WTF are two different entities, but they are often linked together. Both have their HQ in South Korea, both are worldwide organizations, and they seem to feed off of each other. If you go to a Kukkiwon school, you probably train for WTF tournaments. Kukkiwon schools probably teach WTF sparring, and any tournament I've gone to that uses WTF rules requires black belts to use Kukkiwon forms. It's like the two have an exclusive relationship with each other, to the point that if you are training under the curriculum of one, you are training for the rules of another.