Would you label this a spinning back kick or side kick or hybrid?

Gerry Seymour

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The entire sequence takes longer but the actual leg motion has a higher velocity when I turn, so it can't be meaningless to do the turn or else the velocity would be equal
I think it might also provide some evasion/recovery options, like the kick in an MMA fight in another recent thread.
 
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I think it might also provide some evasion/recovery options, like the kick in an MMA fight in another recent thread.


I actually can't do the jumping one anymore but that's the one I've used defensively once. Aerial kicks seem very sensitive to inactivity.

Here's a snap of when I could do it, in jeans no less!
_20201217_021613.JPG
 
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I can't really do the flying side kick very well these days either, and I used to get up pretty high with it.

Strange since I could do that one my entire life from. When I was a kid.. Maybe weight gain and inactivity has messed up my muscle memory?
 

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See here for more confusion. What he labels a standard spinning back kick #1 in contrast to the previous ITF clip, is clearly a side kick turning around. And it looks like he is standing too close to the mitts but that's a separate point

And they are both ITF...

The second kick in the combo around the 3:24 mark I would call a back kick. Everything else I saw was a side kick or a variant of.

Body rotation and foot position give it away the quickest to me. In nearly every kick the striking foot is horizontal and the shoulder/hip rotation is indicative of a side kick.

If you look at the timeframe I mentioned you can see he is mostly looking over his shoulder on the second kick and the toes are down; a back kick.
 

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does it have a higher velocity? , it may have more acceleration, but thats not necessarily the same thing

velociity is time devided by distance, the kick is both traveling a long way and taking a long time, when compared with a shorter kick divided by a shorter time

the divining factor would be have you got more of you body mass tranfered into the kick, and the answer is maybe, but not that much, its easy to judge by kicking something, that will give you some feed back and allow you to judge if the elivated time is worth the pay off.

you may of course get an a different answer kicking a bag, which sort of wait for you and a person who may move coz you given them ample warning
I'm not sure if it has more acceleration or not, but even if it had the same acceleration (I assume we're talking about average acceleration over the entire movement, to preclude the idea of the acceleration ceasing earlier), and was traveling a longer distance, then (assuming the same static start), it would have to have higher velocity, because it would be under acceleration longer. If it has more acceleration and a longer distance, it has to have a higher velocity at the end.
 

Gerry Seymour

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It doesn't matter beyond the fact that I don't know which one it is. So this is would be an interesting poll to conduct.
It's just terminology. There are "techniques between the techniques), where you're using the principles, but operating between the definitions of "techniques". It could be either, neither, or both, depending how you look at it.
 

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I posted it with the label spinning back kick on another forum

First reply: "indeed it is", from a Karate expert.

This is starting to look controversial:)
I don't think it's so much controversial (no real controversy) as debatable.
 

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speed is the time between two points , point a) starts when you start the turn, not when you release the leg,,

if it was, a round kick you would have considerable more energy in it, but your not, your spinning and then throwing a side kick, it a complely different vector, to the one for you momentum .

the back kick, is to turn and force your leg out knee down, that not what you ate doing, you just starting your side kick whilst facing the wrong direction,

if you feel this improves it, thats ok with me
The mechanics aren't that simplistic. The hips are moving toward the target more than from a static start, and the rotation generates momentum which can be released toward the target.
 

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I'm not sure if it has more acceleration or not, but even if it had the same acceleration (I assume we're talking about average acceleration over the entire movement, to preclude the idea of the acceleration ceasing earlier), and was traveling a longer distance, then (assuming the same static start), it would have to have higher velocity, because it would be under acceleration longer. If it has more acceleration and a longer distance, it has to have a higher velocity at the end.
we are likely to get lost in defintions, again,
ate we talking about back kicks or his back kick?
back kick are a lot more energetic than side kicks largly because of the muscles in volved, in particular your activating the glutes to a greater extent,and any back kick were your facing the tarket has a degree if spin in it.

the issue with his " back kick" is the orintatuon of the leg dorsnt fire the glutes much, so he is robbing him self od energy. coz urs a side kick

what he is tryibg to do is to put that energy back with extra spin.
which he may be doibg to a small degree .

there will definelty be tranfer od momentum into the kick, but how much and is this suffibt to make up for the time lost in doibg the spin? its fine if your kick a static target, or in his case air, less clear cut, if the guys goibg to move, forwards to take yoyr back or out of range, if he did that against me( at that speed ) id take him down, if i had the slightest clue that what he was intending, and if i niss times abd got hit, its not the end of the world as im a lot closer than what he was aiming at and there is little power in it, and im still in range with forward momentum

the lissue with the acceleration is( mostly) its in the wrong vector, so the best he is getting centrafugal force accelerating his leg faster and he not spinnibg that fast its a notable amount

he would be far better going bqck to basics and lrarnibg the kick than yrying to get points for artistic impression

DC, who is a tkdexspert and an international class competitor,told him uts wrong, im more likely to go with him,than random peopke imon you tube
 
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Gerry Seymour

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we are likely to get lost in defintions, again,
ate we talking about back kicks or his back kick?
back kick are a lot more energetic than side kicks largly because of the muscles in volved, in particular your activating the glutes to a greater extent,and any back kick were your facing the tarket has a degree if spin in it.

the issue with his " back kick" is the orintatuon of the leg dorsnt fire the glutes much, so he is robbing him self od energy. coz urs a side kick

what he is tryibg to do is to put that energy back with extra spin.
which he may be doibg to a small degree .

there will definelty be tranfer od momentum into the kick, but how much and is this suffibt to make up for the time lost in doibg the spin? its fine if your kick a static target, or in his case air, less clear cut, if the guys goibg to move, forwards to take yoyr back or out of range, if he did that against me( at that speed ) id take him down, if i had the slightest clue that what he was intending, and if i niss times abd got hit, its not the end of the world as im a lot closer than what he was aiming at and there is little power in it, and im still in range with forward momentum

the lissue with the acceleration is( mostly) its in the wrong vector, so the best he is getting centrafugal force accelerating his leg faster and he not spinnibg that fast its a notable amount

he would be far better going bqck to basics and lrarnibg the kick than yrying to get points for artistic impression

DC, who is a tkdexspert and an international class competitor,told him uts wrong, im more likely to go with him,than random peopke imon you tube
Nothing I said had anything to do with his form. I was replying to a specific comment that seemed confusing to me, where you were pondering whether a longer (timewise) motion with perhaps more acceleration had more velocity.
 

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Nothing I said had anything to do with his form. I was replying to a specific comment that seemed confusing to me, where you were pondering whether a longer (timewise) motion with perhaps more acceleration had more velocity.
and im applying my comments to his kick and not back kicks in general

henc3 the need to know, exactly what your referibg to

with better form, he may get the extra acceleration he desires, as it is, im far from convinced he gains any real world benifit from his spin. uts slower with liittle extra energy

so again are we talking about back kicks in gereral or his specific version of it

back kicks in general are ace, all the piints you made about acceleration are valid, but thats not what he is doing
 

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He also includes several meaningless (IMO) details (arms should be 25 cm from the body) that seem to be based on a picture from General Choi’s encyclopedia, which I tend to think is silly and unnecessary.

Tapatalk
The 25 CM is specified for Bending Ready Stance Type B (Vol II Page 166).
 

Earl Weiss

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I agree that his appeal to authority via the encyclopedia is irrelevant since General Choi and ITF is irrelevant for the other branches of TaeKwonDo. Especially these days with several generations since the KKW took over in South Korea. In the 70s he might have a point...

It's relevant in the context provided - Chang Hon Bending ready stance B and Back piercing kick. Not intended for anything else.
 
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It's relevant in the context provided - Chang Hon Bending ready stance B and Back piercing kick. Not intended for anything else.

He did not state ITF specifically and if he were to be completely open, he would say the ITF Taekwondo encyclopedia
 
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The 25 CM is specified for Bending Ready Stance Type B (Vol II Page 166).

Again, Jamseau does not accept the ITF as authority being that he is KKW affiliated so why write that?
 

Gerry Seymour

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and im applying my comments to his kick and not back kicks in general

henc3 the need to know, exactly what your referibg to

with better form, he may get the extra acceleration he desires, as it is, im far from convinced he gains any real world benifit from his spin. uts slower with liittle extra energy

so again are we talking about back kicks in gereral or his specific version of it

back kicks in general are ace, all the piints you made about acceleration are valid, but thats not what he is doing
What I'm referring to was your comment about acceleration and velocity. As I said, it seemed confusing. If you didn't mean what I thought, then I'm not sure what your point is in continuing this.
 

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What I'm referring to was your comment about acceleration and velocity. As I said, it seemed confusing. If you didn't mean what I thought, then I'm not sure what your point is in continuing this.
because longer acceleration time aveaged of a set distance,does not necessary mean a greater speed, between point a and point b,

it can, but it may not, its just wrong to assume it does, unless you can demonstaite its so

in the context of HIS kick o doubt it does, in fact i doubt that he was accelerating for cthe duration of the turn, and as its his kick i was discussing, not back kicks in general, thats a valid point, i feel
 
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because longer acceleration time aveaged of a set distance,does not necessary mean a greater speed, between point a and point b,

it can, but it may not, its just wrong to assume it does, unless you can demonstaite its so

in the context of HIS kick o doubt it does, in fact i doubt that he was accelerating for cthe duration of the turn, and as its his kick i was discussing, not back kicks in general, thats a valid point, i feel

Acceleration is what creates power and there is fantastic acceleration on my leg.
 
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You see this all the time in boxing. Fighters look like they don't hit particularly hard but what they do is employ proper weight transfer and suddenly accelerate with a short hook and that's all it takes.

From the outside it doesn't look like a powerful enough punch to knock someone out, but the devil is in the details, namely acceleration.

The more mass something carries, the less room for acceleration is required.

This is why a lot of boxers throw haymakers, to get that extra travel time. It's harder to knock someone out with petite fists.
 

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