World black Belt Bureau

Discussion in 'Organizations' started by Rob_Broad, Jan 14, 2002.

  1. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    How bout we all just step back and agree to disagree about the WBB.

    @ScorpionShawn checkout the other threads (I suggest start with the active posts function), introduce yourself in meet and greet, and enjoy the discussions.

    Typically, it’s a pretty friendly and accepting site.
     
  2. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Rank credentials, promotions and authority to issue such promotions are only meaningful when issued by someone who
    a) has an appropriate level of expertise in the art for which the credentials are being granted and
    b) has actual knowledge of the qualifications in that art of the person to whom the credentials are being granted.

    The WBBB issues credentials in arts where Mr. Rhee has no qualifications to individuals about whom he knows nothing other than that their check cleared. He's free to do so, but others are free to express their opinions of such behavior.
     
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  3. ScorpionShawn

    ScorpionShawn Yellow Belt

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    CB Jones I agree and Im laughing over here because I will stand by WBBB all day long as long as i put vaule to it and my students do as well. Then case closed...

    Tony there is vaule in my eyes to seeing other schools that use WBBB and have really good instructors and students. Yes sure there are some fakes out there that abuse what WBBB is trying to do by adding some unity to all systems. How ever all Im seeing here is a lot of hate towards it and that happens to anything that tries to unit instead of divide.
     
  4. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    If you, or anyone else, wants to train with Mr. Rhee, that's great. If he wants to promote any of his students to rank seems appropriate in his PaSaRyu system, that's great. If he wants to promote a PaSaRyu practitioner who is not his direct student, based on observing whatever appropriate test procedures are set out in that system, that's great.

    If Mr. Rhee wants to award a rank in Ninjutsu or Aikido to someone he hasn't even met, that's going to strike a lot of people as rather shady.
     
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  5. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Sure, there's always value to seeing good schools, whether or not they use the WBBB.

    Honest question here: how exactly is the WBBB adding or attempting to add unity to different systems? For that matter, what exactly does "unity" mean in this context?
     
  6. ScorpionShawn

    ScorpionShawn Yellow Belt

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    ABOUT THE
    WORLD BLACK BELT BUREAU


    The World Black Belt Bureau (WBBB) is a full service organization dedicated to filling the needs of all martial artists.

    Founded in 1972 by martial arts Master Kang H. Rhee, the World Black Belt Bureau provides certificates, pins, patches and other supplies, including manuals for instructors and individuals, in a cost efficient manner.

    The WBBB enables martial artists to have their ranks recognized and recorded worldwide.

    The World Black Belt Bureau is comprised of martial artists from all ranks, styles, systems and associations.

    It is required that members adhere to the basic martial arts philosophy of Honor, Dignity and Respect.
     
  7. ScorpionShawn

    ScorpionShawn Yellow Belt

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    Again if you yourself or others dont recognize BB from WBBB so what?
     
  8. ScorpionShawn

    ScorpionShawn Yellow Belt

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    I have a lot of respect for this man and will honor the WBBB by making sure my black belts look good and do effective techniques. Haters gonna hate and fakers going to fake. Sad people will abuse a honor system he has set in place to unite many different styles.
     
  9. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Like I said before, I don’t deal with belt ranks, I train Traditional CMA, and I have nothing against WBBB, frankly I don’t know enough about it to have much to say either way. But there is one point in their claim of recognition I question

    “The WBBB enables martial artists to have ranks recognized and recorded worldwide.”

    I have my doubts that it would fly in Japan, not certain about Korea, likely not mean much in Taiwan, and I am certain it would mean nothing in China, and they are part of the world. Probably would not matter much in an MMA gym or Gracie school, or any CMA place that supports duan rankings. It would seem to me it would only enable martial artists to have ranks recognized in those school that are current members of the WBBB, much like any other martial arts organization.
     
  10. ScorpionShawn

    ScorpionShawn Yellow Belt

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    I took the worldwide claim as you can be in Ireland open a school and say your part of WBBB and direct people to look it up. How ever it really doesn't mater what you teach what organization your part of to anyone outside of it as I have stated a few times in other post here before.
     
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  11. JR 137

    JR 137 Grandmaster

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    My current teacher needs a hip replacement. This will be #3 - both hips once, and now redoing one of them. He can’t kick above his own waist; most kicks are about knee to mid thigh height. Somehow, a lot of our students can kick quite high and quite gracefully. Odd, huh?

    When I was in my 20s, I used to care about how skilled my teacher was. That teacher was the most talented MAist I’ve ever been around - fast, strong, and sharp. During his Kyokushin days, he was the guy everyone watched out for. What does that do for me as his student? Entertain me. Let me say “my teacher can beat up your teacher.” Stuff like that. It’s not like standing near him is going to transfer his skills by osmosis.

    My former teacher was an excellent teacher too. That’s what’s important. My current teacher isn’t as good physically as my former teacher (the whole hips thing). My current teacher is a better teacher than my former teacher. He’s done a better job of breaking down my faults and giving me a realistic way of fixing them that suits me. My former teach was good at that, my current teacher is great at it.

    There’s a reason why Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson didn’t have very good coaching careers. It certainly wasn’t because they weren’t talented enough.
     
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  12. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Ok, so a question.

    How do I look up a WBBB member?
     
  13. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    I'm a little confused on all this record keeping stuff. Don't people issue paper Certificates anymore ? I have paper certificates issued by the style organization, signed by the style head, the organization head and my teacher. All dated and stamped official. If someone questioned me all I do is show them the certificate. And many of my teachers are now dead but that paper is still with me. If someone still wants to question me I politely ask them to join a class and judge for themselves. Training on the floor should be more important that paper or record keeping anyway.
     
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  14. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Certificates, pins, and patches? For what? Are they a design shop? Can I email my personal design to them and get patches and pins made for me? Can I request customized certificates for me exclusively to issue to my students? Meaning: are they a print shop?

    Manuals? Of what kind? Do they print/publish my own manuscript for me, or are they selling their own manuals to me? If the latter, why would I want them? I do not train in whatever it is that their guy does. Do they want me to do whatever it might be that they do?

    Could you clarify these points?
     
  15. ScorpionShawn

    ScorpionShawn Yellow Belt

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    its really about tell the trolls on here to post a video of them doing martial arts before they speak on it and then you get this message. haha now i know the true intent of these post thats why so much hate.
     
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  16. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    WTH.

    Dude, chill out a little. Not everything has to be a battle.
     
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  17. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Sigh.

    Ok toughguy.
     
  18. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    You are reading an awful lot into these posts that is not there.....and making rather large assumptions.....getting overly defensive and, IMO, over reacting..... alrighty then..... you have a nice day
     
  19. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    I'm starting to think this whole thing is nothing more than click bait for his Youtube channel. I ain't clicking.
     
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  20. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    It's nothing whatsoever to do with that actually.

    You're taking this very personally (and personally on behalf of WBBB as well).

    Whether you're good or not has no reflection on WBBB in the slightest - nor does whether I'm any good or not.

    Likewise, buying a certificate from them doesn't make you or me any better.

    The belt (or certificate) does not make the person.

    From what I can gather from digging on the website, WBBB isn't a system - I think that's been established.

    So, this is the part that bothers me most:

    What gives them the right to grant authority to anyone to be an instructor or run a school? They're suggesting they can override other system's governing bodies?

    As I understand it, the usual way of things is to rise through the ranks until you're at a point deemed by the controlling body of a system where you are an instructor. You get assessed/graded by authorised representatives of said system (who have been through the same procedure).

    WBBB, no. You get instructor authority purely by paying an extra fee. There is no assessment, no inspection, no quality control.

    To go back to your earlier example - a WBBB instructor who can do a high kick vs. a KKW instructor who can't. Well...

    The KKW instructor will have been through the system, they'll have to have proven knowledge.

    The WBBB instructor - all I know is that they can write a cheque and kick high.


    I'm probably repeating myself here, but doing a technique doesn't mean you can teach a technique. You might naturally turn your hips and supporting leg correctly to do a high technique, but if you can't spot someone else not doing that and correct them they're likely to blow a joint.

    That's the instructor's fault - all the pins, patches and certificates in the world won't help.


    It's also on the website that the WBBB was founded in 1972 - that's 46 years.

    Looking at the online active member listing (additional 19$ for an entry, no other way to verify membership as an outsider) there are 127 listed members. Of those, 114 are in the US.

    The Facebook page has 56 likes.

    For a worldwide organisation with a 46 year history, that's pretty poor.123
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018

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