Woo Woo moments in Bujinkan

[Elizium]

In an effort to use science to explain this, the following is my theory.

I am glad to see this sentance. You are being rational and not saying I see it as this and you should tow the line.

Additionally, along the same note, life (what makes us) is fundamentally electricity. This can even be described as Energy. I think it was Einstein that theorized there is a finite amount of energy in the Universe. An someone else has proven that energy never dies, it just changes state. With this in mind, and reading some of Soke's books about life and so forth, and thinking in terms of the various religions, life takes on a whole new perspective for me.

The way it sounds is like the Bhuddist reincarnation of the soul. This subject has many ideals, theories and supposition. I like to see that people are not trying to flame each other on personal viewpoints.

 

[Bigshadow]

I am glad to see this sentance. You are being rational and not saying I see it as this and you should tow the line.


The way it sounds is like the Bhuddist reincarnation of the soul. This subject has many ideals, theories and supposition. I like to see that people are not trying to flame each other on personal viewpoints.

Just sharing my theory of how it works. But it is just theory. Yes it does sound like Bhuddism, but if you really look closely you may find that most religions incorporate many elements of this. Just like Bhuddist believe in reincarnation, I think the Christians do too, just they don't call it that. They call it rapture and the many other other descriptions of it. I think that fundamentally, most religions have the same building blocks. Of course this might be my limited view of religions, but so far I find many similarities between the ones I do know about.

Likewise, I think I am beginning to see how this also is tied into the martial arts as well, including Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. I don't think any of it is super natural or magic, certainly much of it is un-explained, but I think it is all natural, just we as humans have lost contact with those sorts of primal "instincts" or sensitivities, which through training we become more attuned to them.

 

[Bigshadow]

It's been my understanding that this changes depending on whether you're working within the boundaries of nijigen no seikai, sanjigen no seikai or yugen no seikai.

You lost me there. I am not familiar with the names. Would you mind explaining to me the various differences? or at least what the three are? Maybe I know but not recognize them by their Japanese names.

Thanks.

 

[Bigshadow]

It is late, but I had this last thought...

An analogy of the electricity that I theorize connects everything in the universe together is "The Force" that is spoken about in Star Wars. Not that I think that "the force" is real, just I think it is a fairly good analogy of how everyone and every living thing has it, but only some have an awareness of it and other cultivate an awareness through training.

G'Nite.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

You lost me there. I am not familiar with the names. Would you mind explaining to me the various differences? or at least what the three are? Maybe I know but not recognize them by their Japanese names.

Thanks.

Arnaud explained the concepts at a seminar last year through the medium of the nine basic kata of Kukishinden Bikenjutsu. I believe it's sort of a "sub-section" to the concept of roppo kuji.

If memory serves me correctly, the first three techniques, tsuki komi, tsuki kake and kiri sage, all have one thing in common - you move AFTER the opponent's attack is begun. That is nijigen no seikai. The next three techniques, kiri sage, kasugai dome/kinshi/kasu dae sage and kocho gaeshi, are designed so that tori should move WITH uke's attack. That is sanjigen no seikai. And the final three techniques, shiho kiri, happo kiri and tsuki no wa, are yugen no seikai, which means that you actually move before uke has fully launched his attack, you act exactly in the moment he decides to attack.

And then there's a whole lot more to it that I probably don't have a clue about just as usual.:asian:

 

[saru1968]

Bigshadow' Not that I think that "the force" is real'

Its a matter of faith and oneday when you believe its real it will be...

Of course its real, how could i be a Jedi otherwise?

(waves hand) 'This IS the Answer your looking for..'

Gary

 

[Elizium]

Arnaud explained the concepts at a seminar last year through the medium of the nine basic kata of Kukishinden Bikenjutsu. I believe it's sort of a "sub-section" to the concept of roppo kuji.

If memory serves me correctly, the first three techniques, tsuki komi, tsuki kake and kiri sage, all have one thing in common - you move AFTER the opponent's attack is begun. That is nijigen no seikai. The next three techniques, kiri sage, kasugai dome/kinshi/kasu dae sage and kocho gaeshi, are designed so that tori should move WITH uke's attack. That is sanjigen no seikai. And the final three techniques, shiho kiri, happo kiri and tsuki no wa, are yugen no seikai, which means that you actually move before uke has fully launched his attack, you act exactly in the moment he decides to attack.

And then there's a whole lot more to it that I probably don't have a clue about just as usual.:asian:

I would say part of that is woo woo kan stuff. But as Uke is in front you are watching subtle differnces in the person and the brain is picking up on the change quicker than your thinking perceives. But if you want to go on a real woo woo, the sakai is the most strange. Some how the sakai seems to go beyond the vision and into something more profound, more along the lines of an earlier, more basic sense humans have lost.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

But if you want to go on a real woo woo, the sakai is the most strange.

You obviously have never heard of the concept of "go rin kudaki"...

 

[Elizium]

You obviously have never heard of the concept of "go rin kudaki"...

And that is?

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

To be dissin' Musashi's five rings...

 

[Bigshadow]

Bigshadow' Not that I think that "the force" is real'

Its a matter of faith and oneday when you believe its real it will be...

Of course its real, how could i be a Jedi otherwise?

(waves hand) 'This IS the Answer your looking for..'

Gary

HAHAHA Funny! My 10 year old son wants to be a Jedi, maybe you can help him! HAHAHA!

 

[Bigshadow]

I would say part of that is woo woo kan stuff. But as Uke is in front you are watching subtle differnces in the person and the brain is picking up on the change quicker than your thinking perceives. But if you want to go on a real woo woo, the sakai is the most strange. Some how the sakai seems to go beyond the vision and into something more profound, more along the lines of an earlier, more basic sense humans have lost.

I think there is more to it! I have noticed lately that I am often able to feel when the uke is going to attack, but the uke has not moved, but it is the point where they have mentally committed themselves to the attack and they must follow through. The brain will not move to something else until that action is complete. That is what I mean by before the uke has moved, however in this case the attack has already begun, just they have not moved or given any outside indicators.

I think we begin to pick up on that the more we train. I know for me, I get a quick but subtle feeling that seems to say "NOW!". It is subtle and passes quickly and often I miss it because I am thinking or tense, or you know the usual stuff.

 

[Bigshadow]

you move AFTER the opponent's attack is begun. That is nijigen no seikai.

What is the significance of moving afterwards? This seems to be what we do when we start training.

are designed so that tori should move WITH uke's attack. That is sanjigen no seikai.

I *think* I can see the advantages of moving WITH uke... This seems to be what we do when we are getting close to shodan.

And the final three techniques, shiho kiri, happo kiri and tsuki no wa, are yugen no seikai, which means that you actually move before uke has fully launched his attack, you act exactly in the moment he decides to attack.

I am pretty sure I can see some of the basic advantages of this. I would think that this is where we aspire to be as we train. But I think that this requires "feeling" the attack before the body moves.

And then there's a whole lot more to it that I probably don't have a clue about just as usual.:asian:

You and me both!

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

What is the significance of moving afterwards? This seems to be what we do when we start training.

What comes to mind is the usage of long spears in the Battle of Stirling in "Braveheart"...

I *think* I can see the advantages of moving WITH uke... This seems to be what we do when we are getting close to shodan.

Only problem is, that may leave you open for deception as well.

I am pretty sure I can see some of the basic advantages of this. I would think that this is where we aspire to be as we train. But I think that this requires "feeling" the attack before the body moves.

I think you're assuming it to be more complicated than it actually is. There is no secret but hard training. And there are plenty of ways to read an opponent and discover the small but significant signs that will give away an attack.

 

[ninhito]

like the eyes or their face, right, but doesnt that take you fighting the person before hand at sometime?

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Their eyes, their face, their voice, their shoulders, their hands, their feet, their breath pattern etc etc...no I don't think so.

 

[Bigshadow]

What comes to mind is the usage of long spears in the Battle of Stirling in "Braveheart"...

Oh I get it! That makes sense. I was looking at something more specific, but yes, thinking outside the box, that seems clearer now. Great movie by the way! It is one of my favorites. I think the Patriot ranks up there too!

Only problem is, that may leave you open for deception as well.

I can see that too. I am kind of getting the idea...

I think you're assuming it to be more complicated than it actually is. There is no secret but hard training.

I may be... I tend to over analyze. I agree it comes from hard training. I wasn't trying to make it sound mystical, if I did, I apologize. I once asked Dick Severance, when I was starting... Should I meditate or something to acquire that sensing ability, his reply was "No... Just train."

 

[Bigshadow]

Their eyes, their face, their voice, their shoulders, their hands, their feet, their breath pattern etc etc...no I don't think so.

not only that, there is the environment which you are in that may have a hostile feel to it, plus we must look at the motivations behind a person's actions. Sometimes they are readily visible and other times not, but I agree that taking in all the data available, it is possible to know when the attack is coming. There are many many other things as well...

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Quoted from Terry Pratchett's "Witches Abroad":

"Wisdom is one of the few things that [look] bigger the further away [they are]. Hence, for example, the Way of Mrs. Cosmopolite, very popular among young people who live in the hidden valleys above the snowline in the high Ramtops. Disdaining the utterances of their own saffron-clad, prayer-wheel-spinning elders, they occasionally travel all the way to No. 3 Quirm Street in flat and foggy Ankh-Morpork, to seek wisdom at the feet of Mrs. Marietta Cosmopolite, a seamstress. No one knows the reson for this, apart from the aforesaid attractiveness of distant wisdom, since they can't understand a word she says or, more usually, screams at them. Many a bald young monk returns to his high fastness to meditate on the strange mantra vouchsafed to him, such as "Push off, you!" and "If I see one more of you little orange devils peering in at me he'll feel the edge of my hand, all right?" and "Why are you buggers all coming round here staring at my feet?" They have even developed a special branch of martial arts based on their experiences, where they shout incomprehensibly at one another and then hit their opponent with a broom."

 

[Elizium]

Quoted from Terry Pratchett's "Witches Abroad":

"Wisdom is one of the few things that [look] bigger the further away [they are]. Hence, for example, the Way of Mrs. Cosmopolite, very popular among young people who live in the hidden valleys above the snowline in the high Ramtops. Disdaining the utterances of their own saffron-clad, prayer-wheel-spinning elders, they occasionally travel all the way to No. 3 Quirm Street in flat and foggy Ankh-Morpork, to seek wisdom at the feet of Mrs. Marietta Cosmopolite, a seamstress. No one knows the reson for this, apart from the aforesaid attractiveness of distant wisdom, since they can't understand a word she says or, more usually, screams at them. Many a bald young monk returns to his high fastness to meditate on the strange mantra vouchsafed to him, such as "Push off, you!" and "If I see one more of you little orange devils peering in at me he'll feel the edge of my hand, all right?" and "Why are you buggers all coming round here staring at my feet?" They have even developed a special branch of martial arts based on their experiences, where they shout incomprehensibly at one another and then hit their opponent with a broom."

Sounds like me but not wearing orange