Women Self Defence!

[AngryHobbit]

Thinking about motivation to train... both for children and wives, girlfriends, sisters, female friends, and family members... I do realize there is no magic wand to just want everyone to study martial arts. But there are ways to get people to think how it might benefit them and get motivated.

I told this story to @gpseymour just yesterday. When I was learning to play piano, motivating myself to practice 2-3 hours a day was... rough. I liked playing, I liked singing, but I was still a kid - it felt like a full-time job. So, my favorite grandpa and I were watching this old Russian detective movie we both loved. At one point, one of the detectives gets captured by a gang. They don't know he's a detective - they think he might be an informant from another gang. So, he just has to improvise and play a role until he figures out a way to get out of there or is rescued. Among other things, when the gang leader asked him what he did for a living, he mentions playing piano at restaurants. So, the gang leader points him toward a piano and tells him to play. And the guy does - and very well. And my grandfather pointed at him and said, "See? This might save your life someday." That was it. Silly, I know - I was six or seven at the time. But it worked. All the pretty ladies in pretty gowns, playing and singing in glamorous ballrooms did not motivate me to practice piano as that one detective, trying to survive.

Another, darker form of motivation came along when @gpseymour and I were discussing whether I should train. I was a pathological pacifist at the time. I managed to feel guilty even about fighting off the two assailants who'd attacked me at various points when I was a child. I tried to reason that, surely, America was not like Ukraine, it was a civilized country where police actually showed up. Right? And then he told me about all the court cases, in which the crime victim called the police - sometimes, more than once - and still ended up badly hurt, raped, or dead. I cried for two hours - it was a major shift in my psyche. And then I got it together and started training.

So... when trying to motivate someone, either show them Wonderwoman and Princess Merida from Brave or let them read some crime stats and detailed reports and court records. Or both.

 

[oftheherd1]

https://www.coe.int/t/dg3/children/1in5/Source/PublicationSexualViolence/Hitrec.pdf

Good read Tez3. Thanks for the link.

One thing I think the article sort of danced around was watching out for and discussing with children what may happen to them when puberty begins to set in. They should first of all be comfortable with, and in fact know that it is preferable, to talk to a parent or other trusted adult about the strange new feelings they have. Sexual predators know about that, and will often look for such signs and try to exploit that in whatever way they think will best work to their advantage. And by the way, the above goes for both boys and girls.

I think it is best when parents can be at the top of the trusted list, and can talk candidly to children, without encouraging any inappropriate behavior. Some teachers may be able to handle that, but based on what I have seen of "sex education" in schools, I am not sure how many would be. And I really don't think that is a proper subject to place on the curriculum anyway. Parents should not give up some responsibilities and I think that is one, regardless of how uncomfortable they may feel discussing sexually related matters.

 

[oftheherd1]

Thinking about motivation to train... both for children and wives, girlfriends, sisters, female friends, and family members... I do realize there is no magic wand to just want everyone to study martial arts. But there are ways to get people to think how it might benefit them and get motivated.

I told this story to @gpseymour just yesterday. When I was learning to play piano, motivating myself to practice 2-3 hours a day was... rough. I liked playing, I liked singing, but I was still a kid - it felt like a full-time job. So, my favorite grandpa and I were watching this old Russian detective movie we both loved. At one point, one of the detectives gets captured by a gang. They don't know he's a detective - they think he might be an informant from another gang. So, he just has to improvise and play a role until he figures out a way to get out of there or is rescued. Among other things, when the gang leader asked him what he did for a living, he mentions playing piano at restaurants. So, the gang leader points him toward a piano and tells him to play. And the guy does - and very well. And my grandfather pointed at him and said, "See? This might save your life someday." That was it. Silly, I know - I was six or seven at the time. But it worked. All the pretty ladies in pretty gowns, playing and singing in glamorous ballrooms did not motivate me to practice piano as that one detective, trying to survive.

Another, darker form of motivation came along when @gpseymour and I were discussing whether I should train. I was a pathological pacifist at the time. I managed to feel guilty even about fighting off the two assailants who'd attacked me at various points when I was a child. I tried to reason that, surely, America was not like Ukraine, it was a civilized country where police actually showed up. Right? And then he told me about all the court cases, in which the crime victim called the police - sometimes, more than once - and still ended up badly hurt, raped, or dead. I cried for two hours - it was a major shift in my psyche. And then I got it together and started training.

So... when trying to motivate someone, either show them Wonderwoman and Princess Merida from Brave or let them read some crime stats and detailed reports and court records. Or both.

Stern requirements and punishment must sometimes be utilized, but rewards are always better. But a detective saving himself and a grandfather who points out the possibility of your life being save? Ya gotta love that!

 

[oftheherd1]

@aedrasteia Yours was a poignant post. You ask some pointed questions. Tez3 linked to a good article, but are there other things you can think of that us dummies might learn from?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well apart from some of the tongue in cheek stuff, there is a valid point of when and to what extent a parent should over rule the wishes of a child, or in the instant case a young woman.

the point at issue wasn't if ma is a good and valid pass time, rather should a child who doesn't want to learn ma be forced to do so by progressively removing her positions u till she complies.

my felling are that is both wrong and counter productive, certainly offer incentives if she buys into it. BUT if she really doesn't want to do that, its normally wrong to force them just because you feel its for there own good.

that aside i suspect reality will be much different and he is yet to experience how determined a 13 yo girl can be and he will be much more concerned with the number of unsuitable boy friends there are calling the house

And now you are making a cogent argument.

 

[hoshin1600]

@aedrasteia i appreciate your posting and i understand the point your trying to make. however it seems to me you post questions rather than answers. in some cases this may be helpful to guide people into thinking about the topic and their own beliefs. but i cant help thinking that your own posts are equally unhelpful as the people your trying to correct.

Once again, not a stranger.
Not a 'street thug'. Not 'in the street'.
Not a stranger. Not a choke. Not grabbed and dragged.

i understand what you are implying here but you cannot say that the typical self defense class in general is NOT HELPFUL.
in the US statics show that there is a great success rate of preventing a rape by physical resistance. that there is virtually no increase in physical harm to a defender if she fights back vs compliance. that determined physical resistance is successful where half hearted pleading and resistance is detrimental. yelling and screaming is actually detrimental and shows a major increase in physical injury.
that the three most successful strategies for averting an attempted rape are, stern verbal resistance (saying no), threat of consequences, and determined physical resistance.

Many of the women were molested as young teenagers, as young as 12 and 13.

i will ask, why is this ? why are young girls targeted more than adults in many cases? it is because of the lower level of resistance and the inability of young small girls to put forth a formidable physical resistance.

i think your post is an attempt to show the difference between forcible rape and coercion. that in many cases it is coercion. i will agree that in these circumstances physical resistance in the form of MA is more difficult to respond with because of the familiarity with the perpetrator but that is not to say it is inappropriate.
unfortunate as your example is, as was pointed out, there are just some situations that are beyond the scope of martial arts and their instructors and i believe children in this situation is one of those.

martial arts is a valuable tool for rape prevention. it should be pointed out that it is not a solution in and of itself, that it is only one component of a successful strategy but it should not be presented and painted as useless in order to bring other non physical strategies to the forefront.

 

[JR 137]

martial arts is a valuable tool for rape prevention. it should be pointed out that it is not a solution in and of itself, that it is only one component of a successful strategy but it should not be presented and painted as useless in order to bring other non physical strategies to the forefront.

Many people either forget this point or just don’t know. This is why I’ve been telling my wife she should go to the class given by the local police department for several years now. And why my daughters will go once they’re old enough. My mother went through her employer at the time. She said it was far more situational awareness and statistics than physical skills.

MA will only get you so far. The awareness aspect will get you a lot further. Very few attacks are committed by the stereotypical guy in a ski mask jumping out of no where, regardless of what the movies and news lead us to believe.

 

[JR 137]

https://www.coe.int/t/dg3/children/1in5/Source/PublicationSexualViolence/Hitrec.pdf

Great to see you here, Tez!

 

[wab25]

First off, I am a parent of two. I have a different opinion about how to raise my kids, concerning self-defense and martial arts than the other parents on this thread. However, I respect the right of each parent to raise their kids in their own way. In fact, I would defer to a particular kid's parents, to know how best to raise their kid. I exercise that right with my kids, and respect that right of other parents concerning their kids. (assuming no abuse of coarse...)

I feel it is important to teach my kids self defense. The most effective thing I can teach them is awareness. Awareness of not only where they are, but where they are going. This includes things like who they go with, how they go there, where and when they are going... As well as how to know where exits are, how to recognize when things are going south soon enough and hopefully giving them the confidence to leave a bad situation early enough. This is by far the most effective in self defense.

I personally don't believe that something practiced for a couple of years, in your early teens, and then ignored for 4 or 5 years, will be of much use... if you had to use it against a bigger, stronger and determined attacker. Maybe some of it will, but also maybe not.

I would rather have my kids choose their own activities. Fortunately, they usually pick at least some activities with a physical component that helps them learn coordination, gain some strength and or endurance. I feel that if my kids are healthier, stronger, faster and have more endurance will help them be able to escape many situations. That paired with awareness, should cover statistically, most situations.

What I value most, is being able to communicate with my kids. I want them to enjoy being around me, talking with me and doing things we all enjoy together. Ideally, if something starts going wrong, they will talk to me or mom. Hopefully, mom and I will notice any differences and start investigating at the right time. Being more involved with my kids and having their trust and communication is what I feel will help my kids out the most. I feel that me mandating that they do an activity that they are not into, will hinder that closeness with my children. I feel that supporting them in whatever they want to do, brings us closer and builds their self confidence.

While I hope that they will study martial arts... they will get more out of it, if they choose it themselves. I hope that giving them the awareness, allowing them to get in the activities they want, hopefully giving them the confidence and keeping in good communication are enough. Yes, that does leave a hole, if that all fails and they need to know how to fight. But I don't feel that studying any art for a few years, because dad made me, will close that hole.

Concerning the thread topic... I believe that all people, women included, should study self-defense. However, that is not my decision... each person decides for themselves. Though, I highly encourage all to train.

 

[AngryHobbit]

Stern requirements and punishment must sometimes be utilized, but rewards are always better. But a detective saving himself and a grandfather who points out the possibility of your life being save? Ya gotta love that!

That's why he was my favorite grandfather. He saved me from rickets when I was a newborn baby by exercising me and using folk remedies. He taught me how to read from street signs and store marquees. And he motivated me to play piano by pointing out how it might save my life someday.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Many people either forget this point or just don’t know. This is why I’ve been telling my wife she should go to the class given by the local police department for several years now. And why my daughters will go once they’re old enough. My mother went through her employer at the time. She said it was far more situational awareness and statistics than physical skills.

MA will only get you so far. The awareness aspect will get you a lot further. Very few attacks are committed by the stereotypical guy in a ski mask jumping out of no where, regardless of what the movies and news lead us to believe.

This is an area that wasn't covered enough in my training. I've been working to improve my knowledge in this area (and some others) to do better for my students.

 

[Tez3]

Good read Tez3. Thanks for the link.

One thing I think the article sort of danced around was watching out for and discussing with children what may happen to them when puberty begins to set in.

The article is European, it's taken for granted that sex education from parents and schools is extensive so everyone knows what happens at puberty.

Most self defence for women is run by men from a male perspective of want women face which is usually sympathetic but not actually helpful.

 

[AngryHobbit]

The article is European, it's taken for granted that sex education from parents and schools is extensive so everyone knows what happens at puberty.

Most self defence for women is run by men from a male perspective of want women face which is usually sympathetic but not actually helpful.

That's a whole separate challenge. I've been trying to motivate women I know to come to class and train with me, but not at all successfully. They are aware of the risks. Some of them are survivors of assault. Almost all of them know someone who has been attacked. But they still won't come. I don't know what to do. Maybe I'm just... not using the right words or something.

 

[Headhunter]

That's a whole separate challenge. I've been trying to motivate women I know to come to class and train with me, but not at all successfully. They are aware of the risks. Some of them are survivors of assault. Almost all of them know someone who has been attacked. But they still won't come. I don't know what to do. Maybe I'm just... not using the right words or something.

Nothing...there's nothing you can do if people don't want to train. You can't make someone train. Of course it'd be good if they did but if that's not what they want to do then that's just how it is

 

[Tez3]

That's a whole separate challenge. I've been trying to motivate women I know to come to class and train with me, but not at all successfully. They are aware of the risks. Some of them are survivors of assault. Almost all of them know someone who has been attacked. But they still won't come. I don't know what to do. Maybe I'm just... not using the right words or something.

1. Use a female instructor who teaches from a female prospective.
2. Martial arts isn't self defence.
3. Why should women have to be the ones who have to 'take action and have to follow rules'', why shouldn't there be classes that teach males not to attack females?
4. Telling women that they are at risk because they are women isn't the answer.
5. As has been pointed out, most women are attacked by someone known to them.
6. Most women have plans in mind if attacked, this may not be fighting back, there should be no judgement if a female does whatever they feel is right to survive, if that includes not fighting 'giving in' then that's right for them. Physical fighting isn't always the answer.
7. Trust women to know what they want.
8. We've Been Teaching Women to Defend Themselves All Wrong

 

[JowGaWolf]

Should Women learn self defense more and more nowadays? How it will help in nowadays life? From what thing women should start learning the self defense tricks?

Check the crime statistics in your area and in surrounding areas. That should give anyone a realistic view on if they need to learn self-defense or not. Also check the missing persons list as well.

What you'll find are victims of all ages male and female. While there are some victims who could not prevent what happened to them. I'm sure the majority of them had an opportunity to avoid what happened to them had they only recognized the opportunity and taken it.

Most people are victims because they didn't disengage when they could, or because they just didn't see it coming. There are very few who I would consider "victims by fate." Those people are truly blind sided and there was nothing that they could have done to avoid it. For example, someone in a hotel window shooting down on people at a concert. There's nothing that those people could have done to avoid that situation. Once in it, self-defense starts to take on an entirely new meaning and perspective. However, for what most people experience. The "victims by fate" occurs less often than missed opportunities.

 

[JowGaWolf]

you also need to accept that giving hem your bag , wallet or car keys is sometimes by far the best strategy

lol. So what you are telling me is that I shouldn't try to counter-rob someone who tries to take my money. Even if I think he's going to have more money than me. lol.

 

[drop bear]

That's a whole separate challenge. I've been trying to motivate women I know to come to class and train with me, but not at all successfully. They are aware of the risks. Some of them are survivors of assault. Almost all of them know someone who has been attacked. But they still won't come. I don't know what to do. Maybe I'm just... not using the right words or something.

People will do hard work for reward rather than fear.

 

[JowGaWolf]

But I have a couple female friends who should’ve been a bit paranoid

I have friends and family members like this as well. One of the things being on the planet for 40+ years is that eventually you won't be able to say things like.
1. I don't know anyone who was raped
2. I don't know anyone who wasn't robbed.
3. I don't know anyone who has gotten into a street fight.
4. I don't know anyone who as been abused

Just go through the list of crimes and you'll discover that you know someone directly or loosely who fits into it, many of the crimes that happen to people.

 

[drop bear]

lol. So what you are telling me is that I shouldn't try to counter-rob someone who tries to take my money. Even if I think he's going to have more money than me. lol.

No absolutely counter rob them. They want your wallet. Take theirs.