Women in the arts

Discussion in 'Women of the Martial Arts (Women Martial Artists)' started by WingChunChick, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Great post. I do have to say that sounds like a very liberal, media driven opinion regarding the US. We have a President that isn't a politician and many lifetime politicians just don't know how to handle that. Plain and simple.
     
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    My beard gives me away.
     
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  3. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Well, trump is simple. I’ll give you that.
     
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  4. DaveB

    DaveB Master Black Belt

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    Suck it up buttercup (thanks Cochran, I like that a lot).

    A woman asked other women what they do to manage in a male dominated environment... and you stuck your oar in to tell her that being a woman has no impact on her experience in training, and victim and feminism and identity politics....

    I don't think I've ever seen more selective reading.

    Instead of whining, why not explain to Steve why all the issues that he's heard being discussed by women don't really make a difference to female students and won't help retain more women?

    You and your snowflake bias took offence where there was nothing offensive but for maybe the tone of the question. Now your plugging your ears to everything that is not invalidation or derision instead of just admitting that you got the wrong end of the stick.

    Gpseymour was reading a different post, I'm doctor Phill on a horse for some reason... all the bluster but no actual argument. Again, post the offensive quote. Anytime. I'll wait.

    Hopefully your inability to form a coherent point beyond a few buzzwords and name calling might twig you on to the fact that this knee-jerk reaction to conversations about things you've not experienced is less righteous indignation and more baby needs his bottle.

    If you're really lucky you might review the bile that's got you trotting out nonsense like "third wave feminism" at the drop of a hat.
    T1J and Hbomberguy on the YouTube are good antidotes, but maybe get over this first.
     
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  5. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Of course it is because the OP specifically mentioned social media so I posted about the impressions given from that about the 'gender war'. I was talking about social media because of the OP.

    My information though comes straight from Americans I trust, they aren't in the media.
    I suppose you are aware that 'liberal' now in the US means something very different from what it does in the rest of the world? yet another word that no longer has it's original and proper meaning in the US.

    Brits tend to smirk when told to 'suck it up', we just have naturally dirty I mean healthy minds..... :D
     
  6. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    I need popcorn.
     
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  7. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    LOL. The irony here is thick.

    So you can't name anything specific?

    And I'm the one trotting out nonsense?

    All I've been doing is trying to get specifics, of which none have been offered, and probably won't be.

    ...it's probably MEN that are at fault here amiright? Bahahaha
     
  8. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    I agree with all you have said, and thanks for the link to the Air Transport Auxilary. That and some links from it were fascinating reading.
     
  9. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    No problem, we have several places here where there were American Air Forces bases, notably RAF Duxford which is now part of the Imperial War Museum, there's a big building with American aircraft etc in, we go there regularly for air shows and to look around. Nearby is the Cambridge American war Cemetery, if anyone has a relative buried there and would like a photo etc please do PM me and next time we are down there ( we are in Newmarket which is close a lot as we have family there) we'll do that with pleasure.
    Cambridge American Cemetery and Memorial | American Air Museum in Britain

    To all, sorry for off topic and thank you for understanding.
     
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  10. DaveB

    DaveB Master Black Belt

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    Specifics of what?

    The only irony is that you are the only person that thinks there is a fault to be specific about.

    You keep ignoring the fact that nobody raised any kind of complaint.
    You ignored the issues raised in Steve's post.
    You ignored the points Tez made.
    You ignored the comparisons I made to help you understand and after ignoring half the thread you sit back smugly and go "ha, you can't answer my question so I must be right".

    Last olive branch of understanding:

    My karate school has a lot of kids. Kids everywhere.
    How do you manage in a kid dominated environment?

    Have I criticised kids?
    Have I raised an issue for which I've indicated kids are to blame?
    Have I said something for which the answer is, "age differences dont matter" Or "no one will discriminate against you for being old"?

    If you answered yes to any of the previous 3 questions, you need help beyond what I or anyone on a forum can offer.

    I get that on the initial reading of the OP it can come off as inflammatory, but read what's there instead of what you think is there.
     
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  11. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Lol are you for real? What world do you live in, and what thread are you reading?
     
  12. DaveB

    DaveB Master Black Belt

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    The thread that you can't quote to support your statement because they are incongruous.
     
  13. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    You're right, I can't support statements I haven't made.
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Alright, @Martial D . I think you've got an axe to grind here, and kind of making an *** out of yourself. Happens to us all, but I'll try to explain why. First post in the thread is this one.
    Now, I will be the first to agree that it's combative out of the gate. The line about how most threads in this section are instantly jumped on is inflammatory. It's a factual statement. But it's also unnecessary and probably didn't start things off well.

    The question asked is a legitimate one, and one that is discussed not just in martial arts, but in many different contexts. Point is, this may not be a question you consider to be valuable, but that's your opinion. You aren't the target audience. I hear this all the time when my kids share things with me that I think are stupid as hell. I'm not the target audience.

    Women who train in BJJ talk about the challenges of training in BJJ from that perspective. Some things are the same, and some are unique to women.

    Women who work in various fields do the same. I train managers and executives, and the challenges faced by women in these positions is not exactly the same as for men.

    Should it be? Well, maybe... maybe not. But that's a philosophical question, not a practical one.
    This was your first response. "Why does it matter what gender you are, here?" To understand the answer, you have to first understand the original question. Said slightly differently, if you agree that martial arts are male dominated, and that it impacts women who train, the answer to your question is obvious.

    You may disagree, but some (most?) women do not believe that the opinions of men on certain subjects are relevant or useful. @WingChunChick 's response below is predictable. I could see it coming from a mile away... she posts about how most threads are immediately jumped on by a bunch of dudes, and you guys didn't let her down.

    I, frankly, don't believe that you are genuinely shocked or surprised by this response. It really should have been exactly what you expected. As a reminder, she did ask a legitimately question in the initial post that wasn't about whether a guy's input is valuable or not. She's specifically asking other women how they handle issues that stem from training in a male dominated field.

    Personally, if you don't agree that there are any issues, you are uniquely unsuited to the discussion. Or at the very most, you could say that in a single sentence post and then move on. You didn't though. You doubled down.

    Reading between the lines, I would agree that victim mentality is a bad thing. I don't see it in her posts to this point. You clearly have filled in a lot of gaps that are based on nothing I can see in this thread. Once again, the question on the table is, "How [do other women] deal with practicing in a male dominated environment?" I changed the subject based on clarification we received down thread (I think she made it clear she intended this to be a discussion among women in further posts). This is not a victim based question. In fact, a case could be made that it is decidedly not reflective of a victim mentality. The OP is inviting conversation about issues, with (I presume) the expectation that these obstacles can be overcome.
    I disagree, and hope you can see now why I think so. You're making this about having men around. I just don't see it.
    I don't know. In my opinion, the post above is reasonable. Warranted or not, you guys really did crap all over this thread and as I've tried to demonstrate above, you in particular have steered this thread in a particular direction, away from the original question.

    And this is where you put your cards on the table. Once again, I haven't seen anything in this thread that speaks to a "poor me" mentality.

    From here, you go on to drag in identity politics and reveal a little more your preconceptions around them. FWIW, I can completely understand why people tend to gravitate toward homogenous group identities. When you're with people with similar backgrounds and experiences, you can communicate in shorthand. You don't have to explain things. For example, I think that "identity politics" as a term has become shorthand by conservative, right wing, American, white men to either claim victimhood for themselves or to minimize experiences, beliefs, and concerns that are raised by anyone who is not a conservative, right wing, American, white man.

    Who says Americans don't get irony? The conservative white men provide the perfect example of identity politics and victim mentality even as they use these terms to deride identity politics and chastise others for their victim mentalities.

    Now, I don't know if that shoe fits you, but it's definitely been a recurring theme in conservative media in recent years, and you do seem to be using some of the shorthand that this particular demographic seems to use quite a bit.
     
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  15. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    No..no axe. No emotional investment at all. The premise here is that there is some issue or disadvantage for women that train with men. Yet here we are on page four with no specific issues to talk about. Just there is some ethereal problem we are supposed to acknowledge?

    When very good responses were given, the reply was something along the lines of 'typical men!' as if just owning a penis invalidates everything that was written to her.

    The rest of this thread has been nonsense mollycoddling and white knighting.
     
  16. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Okay. But you are acting like you had nothing to do w with it.
     
  17. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Nothing to do with what?
     
  18. DaveB

    DaveB Master Black Belt

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    The cognitive dissonance is jumping off the screen like a 3d magic eye puzzle.

    You have literally been shown, step by step, how what you think this thread is about is just not what it's about. Yet you drive on through with the same thing, utterly unswayed by reason or logic.

    Truly sir you are a marvel of the modern age.

    Actually I think you might be onto something.
    If I just dismiss people explaining stuff to me in detail with references and all as just nonsense or "White", "Knighting", I never have to hear a single thing I don't agree with.

    It's genius really.
     
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  19. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Sure. You can add it to you already formidable repertoire of building elaborate straw men and burning them down. You'll be unstoppable.
     
  20. DaveB

    DaveB Master Black Belt

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    Evidence your claim.
     

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