Women in the arts

Discussion in 'Women of the Martial Arts (Women Martial Artists)' started by WingChunChick, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I said 'Xtian FAR RIGHT', I didn't say all please read properly. Please note the FAR RIGHT bit. That is differentiating between them and proper Xtians.

    Do not change my words again, if you don't like them disagree but don't try to change what I say. I know exactly what I wrote and you have just managed to prove the OPS point for her.
     
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  2. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    Well, I didn't carry that off well. I meant that to be cute more than critical. Point taken and my apologies.
     
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  3. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Ok no problem, the only reason I mentioned it in the first place is because I believe the OP is being influenced by current situations ( perhaps it's being going on longer though and not come to the attention of the wider world). She also mentioned social media and much of what I've seen from American sites is very divisive when it comes to gender, it almost seems like gender warfare to be honest. I don't want to go into the reason in depth but I'm not sure how deep it goes into 'real life' and the dojo ( is the dojo real life? :D)
     
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  4. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    Yes, I think you are pretty much on track on all points.
     
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  5. WaterGal

    WaterGal Master of Arts

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    I love how the response to this thread was a bunch of guys rushing in to explain to us all how the issue the OP expressed isn't an issue at all. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
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  6. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    To be fair no specific issue has been raised. Somehow just having men around is a problem? Why specifically?
     
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  7. WaterGal

    WaterGal Master of Arts

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    To answer the OP's actual question... there are a number of strategies I've used.

    First off, you have to pick a school that's welcoming and doesn't have a really "bro"-ish culture.

    Secondly, find good partners. See if you can find some other female students to work with, where possible, and support each other. Try to feel out the male students to see who's going to be weird and who's going to just treat you like another student. Some guys will be uncomfortable working with a woman at first, because they're not used to "hitting a girl" and will try to baby you, but will be fine once they get to know you. A few guys may be creeps - I don't need to tell you to avoid them like the plague.

    Thirdly, encourage other women to train with you, and try to make new female students feel welcome. When women are already there, more women will join.

    FWIW, I co-own a school, and our TKD program (mostly kids) is usually around 35-40% female. The adult programs have fewer women, but we're working on that. This idea that women and girls just aren't interested in martial arts is nonsense. That's just an excuse for failure on the school's part. You just have to market to women & girls and make them feel welcome.
     
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  8. WingChunChick

    WingChunChick Yellow Belt

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    This post wasn't supposed to be some giant political mess. It was just me asking the other girls how they interact and their experiances. You guys trainwrecked the conversation and that sucks.

    I've seen a few responses which bring up that you can ignore. And yes, I can. But I shouldn't have to, it takes time and energy to sift through tons of comments and figure out which ones are actually responses. Plus take your own advice, you could also ignore this thread.

    You didn't have to come here and post your opinions on a subject you have zero experiance in. Just like I wouldn't comment in threads I felt I had nothing to offer. You think we havn't heard your "but what about me" type responses a thousand times over.

    This isn't about you, please just let us talk about our stuff.
     
  9. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Have you considered that this might be a problem with your headspace rather than your training space? I know and train with lots of women, and none of them that last any length of time carry around a victim or 'poor me' mentality.
     
  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I think a lot of the difference in interest (at least in the US) is cultural. We often get our idea of what's cool from movies and such, and there's a lot more cool male martial arts in movies. Most guys I know in martial arts who are around my age got the bug watching movies or TV. I'm not sure there's an equivalent cultural indoctrination for women. What think you?
     
  11. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Actually there is a 'secret' women's forum on here where we discuss things. The men are actually correct about this section, while it is about women's martial arts it's not just for women.

    I'm afraid while you think it's not political it is and I'm afraid you started the 'trainwreck' by criticising men for jumping in. You are also, as I said before, making it seem like it's a gender war.

    Don't tell me I have zero experience, I have 65 years of experience going back to when women were treated a lot worse than we are now and it's thanks to women of my generation who fought for equal pay, equal rights that you have what you have now. Yes you are having to fight a different fight now if you don't want to end up as handmaids but alienating potential allies by ranting against them is not the way to go. A great many of the men on this site, I have known them a long time now and rarely do we have a post complaining about women. If women are mentioned it's usually asking how to help with their self defence training etc. Now, I am critical of a lot of self defence for females that is run by men, I believe while they think they are helping they don't understand female psychology enough to actually know what females need from training but I'm sure that's an interesting discussion for another time. Most men here train with women, many too have female instructors or have had them. Some train with their significant others. On the whole the atmosphere here is fine for women, even though there is only about four or five of us.


    Now about training with men, what are the specific problems you are coming across? I can put my hand on my heart and say I don't have problems with men, one or two may have a problem training with me but they soon realise that's unwise. My training, non martial arts, has equipped me to deal with just about any situation you can imagine and maybe some you can't. I don't allow problems when training, it's really is that simple. I don't train at places where idiots train and I don't allow idiots to train with us. I've trained at many TMA places as well as MMA gyms, the vast majority of male martial artists do not have a problem with females. Now I'm sure what individual men do have a problem with is a specific woman and a specific man, that's human nature. Just because someone doesn't like you doesn't mean it's because of your gender, I dislike quite a few men and women mostly because they are numpties, idiots, racists or just not nice people, it's not because of their gender.

    Martial arts in the UK, as I said before, have a lot of females in, many instructors are female, we also don't have many commercial schools or gyms. Most martial arts places are clubs and train in village halls, schools and community centres. since Nicola Adams won the first female boxing Olympic gold medal, women have been flocking to boxing gyms here and much to many people's surprise they have been warmly welcomed. The basic reason for this is simple, just as it is with martial arts. people who do martial arts, boxing etc love doing it and love that people want to come and join in, that they want to learn. do we have macho idiots? of course but guess who gets rid of them, yep blokes who want women to train.
    Another thing we have been doing in the UK is a countrywide campaign to get females in sports as a whole, individual sports including martial arts have been working with this campaign. This Girl Can - Sport England
    You may think this doesn't address your complaints but we need to show females, young women especially that they can go into sports which may be thought of as male dominant and actually succeed. women's football ( proper football not American) rugby and cricket teams have succeeded hugely well and come to the general publics attention, more females have gone into these sports and there's female teams now alongside the mens. Jade Jones did well in the Olympics so TKD got a big boost, though not sure if they needed it, I'd say TKD students have just about as many females as males. another style here that has probably about equal numbers is Judo, they've had women doing Judo for at least a hundred years. Women’s Judo – Cambridge Judo



    Nicola Adams effect inspires more women to take up boxing


    Somehow I doubt you will read this, you haven't replied to anything I've posted, I assume you are dumping me in with the men, that's fine. I should also tell you I've trained with a few women who have had an appalling attitude as well, it wasn't because they were women, they were just appalling people.

    If you have, as I have already said, a specific problem that you want to discuss, stating it without blaming all men could produce some answers you will find helpful, the sort of men who are idiots to women are usually idiots to men as well, I suspect that men often have to deal with macho and stupid attitudes from other men more than women do sometimes.




    Btw don't call me a girl, I'm not, I am a WOMAN. I earned the right to say that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
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  12. WaterGal

    WaterGal Master of Arts

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    I don't think you're wrong when it comes to why guys are more likely to sign up. But I think that young girls like "action stuff" more than they're given credit for. And I think that's even more true for girls today then when you or I were kids, between girls' superhero shows, a Wonder Woman movie, there being actual women's pro fighting, etc, there are actually a decent number of strong female action heroes out there for them to look up to. (I remember we had a young girl at the school for a while who told me her goal was to beat Rhonda Rousey! She was like 6 or 7, lol.)
     
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  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, I definitely agree girls like action stuff more than is stereotyped. My point was just that they don't get the same amount of prompting from pop culture that the boys do - though as you point out it's getting better. So, boys I grew up with went for MA because they saw Chuck Norris, David Carradine, and other men on screen doing cool MA stuff on a very regular basis. There were many fewer examples of women doing cool MA stuff on screen, so less pop culture priming for the girls.

    EDIT: Somehow deleted a couple of phrases and had to put them back.
     
  14. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    To be honest. half of the time I don't know if who I'm talking to is male or female, unless I've been talking to them for a while and have gotten to know them. Other than that the threads are just some other person on the other end of the computer that does martial arts.
     
  15. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    I can't quite figure this thread out.
     
  16. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    I think some of the fellas in here need to take a step back and give the ladies a little breathing room.
     
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  17. DaveB

    DaveB Master Black Belt

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    Except that wasn't what was said. At all.

    Good grief.
     
  18. DaveB

    DaveB Master Black Belt

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    Guys, take the OP and replace the word men with "young people half my age", and imagine it was posted in the Old Farts forum.

    Is it still as offensive or controversial or mystifying a statement?

    It always amazes me how many folks simply cannot fathom that their experiences don't necessarily cover everyone else's.
     
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  19. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    We had 'Cathy Gale', 'Emma Peel' and their successors in The Avengers. Hugely popular, these women inspired many women into martial arts ( and just 'inspired' males lol) in the 60s and 70s.
    How Honor Blackman Brought Women's Self Defense to Television | FIGHTLAND

    Emma Peel, Television's First Karate-Kicking Heroine, Turns 50 | FIGHTLAND
     
  20. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah. I physically stopped myself from doing that.
     

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