Wing Chun Boxing

[Kung Fu Wang]

The major difference between the WC guard and boxing guard are:

- WC guard protects the center and invite your opponent to attack through the side doors. When you use the WC guard, your hands are closer to your opponent's head.
- Boxing guard protects the side doors and invite your opponent to attack through the front doors. When you use the boxing guard, your hands are closer to your own head.

You should be able to do both. When your opponent attacks your

- side doors, you use Tan Da to attack his front door.
- front door, you use left/right hook punch (or hay-maker) to attack his side door.

To put your hands closer to your opponent's head is superior than just to put your hands near your own head.

IMO, the "rhino guard" can protect your center much better than the WC guard.

 

[KPM]

The major difference between the WC guard and boxing guard are:

- WC guard protects the center and invite your opponent to attack through the side doors. When you use the WC guard, your hands are closer to your opponent's head.
- Boxing guard protects the side doors and invite your opponent to attack through the front doors. When you use the boxing guard, your hands are closer to your own head.

My view, starting at the 4:20 mark:

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

My view, starting at the 4:20 mark:

We have the same concept to protect our center:

1. from inside out , as well as
2. from outside in.

IMO, to be able to do both is important. In defense, our goals are the same. In offense, our goal are different.

- You use both guards to achieve your "striking" goal.
- I use both guard to achieve my "clinching" goal.

1. close guard - rhino guard.

2. open guard - double spears.

 

[drop bear]

Hahahahahaha!!! Are you serious; you are wanting to compare someone finding an object of value on the ground and picking it up to someone fighting using a particular martial art?

I have already stated the individual aspect in your equation.

It is such a good comparison though. You would bend over to pick up money of the ground but not break ranks on your fundamentals if it stopped you getting your head smashed in?

 

[Danny T]

not break ranks on your fundamentals if it stopped you getting your head smashed in?

What?!! No...and I never said that.

 

[LFJ]

The Taiji preying mantis system was created by combining both Taiji and preying mantis.

No, it wasn't.

If Taiji and preying mantis can be combined, WC and boxing are much easier to combine.

Nice thought... Too bad it's entirely wrong.

The style has nothing to do with Taijiquan.

It uses Taiji in the name merely to recognize the philosophical principles of Yin and Yang present in the system, represented by the Taiji symbol.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I beg to differ sir. It will depend on range. We do so in Wing Chun quite a bit and in Pekiti-Tirsia Kali as well.
Range will dictate different actions.

Agreed. I can even punch (obviously with reduced power) standing only on the rear leg. I think I may have actually used that once or twice in sparring (or maybe not - I've drilled it a few times, and can't recall a specific instance in sparring), when someone came in for my front leg.

 

[Vajramusti]

My view, starting at the 4:20 mark:

Neither boxing nor wing chun !!

 

[KPM]

Neither boxing nor wing chun !!

True! Because its "Wing Chun Boxing"!!

 

[drop bear]

True! Because its "Wing Chun Boxing"!!

By the way dont go inside their foot to throw a hook.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

True! Because its "Wing Chun Boxing"!!

It was so funny that in my dream last night, I had used my "rhino guard" to defeat 3 guys in the ring. In all 3 fights, I charged in as a rhino. My big fist could hit on my opponent's face. But my opponent's fist could not hit my head. My wife put her hand on my forehead. She told me that I was breathing heavily in my dream.

The day when you die, you will not be happy that you have been just a good copy machine. You will be happy that you have created at least something new.

No creation -> no contribution to the world -> you life has no meaning

IMO, if someone has to create the system of "WC boxing", why not just let that person to be yourself? Boxing doesn't have Tan Da.

 

[TMA17]

I'm new to the forum and to WC so please go easy on me.

I grew up practicing western boxing. I've always enjoyed it. I just started Wing Chun and have a few observations of it.

Where I am training we cover all ranges and we don't face the opponent in the square stance. There are side stances, side and front kicks and if you're foot work is good, you have the ability to move in and out of close/long range.

Western boxers are often more fit and train harder, hence they are often better fighters. However, the core principles of Wing Chun, from what I've seen and learned so far, can be used very effectively from various distances and angles.

I know some do not personally like WC syltes that tend to integrate boxing footwork movements because those movements can slow with age. WC is structurally designed to be its own feel.

Within boxing there are many styles. Mike Tyson fights nothing like Ali did. WC can be somewhat rigid and unfortunately too many within the art fight among each other as to what is "real" WC.

WC structure is based on efficiency and directness. Some would argue it needs no improvement. If someone athletic enough and in great shape studies WC well, I'm sure he/she could do some serious damage against a boxer using WC.

My .02.

 

[KPM]

I'm new to the forum and to WC so please go easy on me.

---Welcome!

Where I am training we cover all ranges and we don't face the opponent in the square stance. There are side stances, side and front kicks and if you're foot work is good, you have the ability to move in and out of close/long range.

---You'll discover that Wing Chun lacks a lot of the upper body evasiveness that boxing has. And the footwork doesn't tend to be as "light on the feet."

Western boxers are often more fit and train harder, hence they are often better fighters. However, the core principles of Wing Chun, from what I've seen and learned so far, can be used very effectively from various distances and angles.

---The problem becomes a lack of punching angles. Wing Chun seldom uses more than just the straight punch. You know that a big part of the effectiveness of boxing is the ability to punch hard and fast from multiple unpredictable angles. Changing the angle of the punch is much faster than changing your whole body in order to enter on a different angle. So Wing Chun often tries to press the opponent to move him to set up a different angle. But this can be difficult on someone that knows how to "roll with punches" and use evasive upper body movement.


I know some do not personally like WC syltes that tend to integrate boxing footwork movements because those movements can slow with age. WC is structurally designed to be its own feel.

---Why would boxing footwork slow with age any more than Wing Chun footwork would slow with age?


WC structure is based on efficiency and directness. Some would argue it needs no improvement. If someone athletic enough and in great shape studies WC well, I'm sure he/she could do some serious damage against a boxer using WC.

----You say you grew up practicing western boxing, so I'll assume you are pretty good at it? Please put on the gloves and have a serious spar with one of the senior students at the Wing Chun school and tell us how it goes. If none are willing to do that, that should tell you something. And if the school does actually spar, take a close look at some of the more advanced students sparring and see how much looks like Wing Chun and how much just looks like poorly done boxing. That's another indicator.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

---You'll discover that Wing Chun lacks a lot of the upper body evasiveness that boxing has. And the footwork doesn't tend to be as "light on the feet."

Light on the feet (fire strategy) is not always a good idea, at least not from a wrestler's point of view. Your opponent can take advantage on your "weight shifting". Most wrestlers like to use the "earth strategy" which is heavy on the feet.

 

[geezer]

...And if the school does actually spar, take a close look at some of the more advanced students sparring and see how much looks like Wing Chun and how much just looks like poorly done boxing. That's another indicator.

When people sometimes say that WC sparring against boxers "just looks like poorly done boxing", I sometimes get a bit confused. Especially if the criticism is coming from a boxer's perspective. A better criticism might be that it "looks like clumsy and ineffective boxing". Because, regardless of how effective WC is, of course it won't and shouldn't look like good Western boxing, since it's not!

Now, if it looks somewhat more like boxing ...like for example the CSL WC/ "Chinese Boxing" that Alan Orr's guys train. Or, the "WC-Boxing" that you are developing --that's OK with me. And naturally, that stuff will still look odd from a boxer's perspective. That's OK too. But if it's clumsy and ineffective, that's not OK!

 

[Danny T]

A good wing chun person will be able to adapt to whatever kind of fighter he/she faces and that adaptation will not look like picture perfect wing chun training.

 

[KPM]

Hey Guys! I recently started a FB forum called "Martial Boxing Forum." It is for the discussion of western boxing as a martial art, whether that is using boxing as a base and adding "martial" elements, or just using boxing-derived methods to improve your martial art. We will be comparing notes on Wing Chun Boxing, 52 Blocks, Panantukan, or anything else with a "boxing flavor." Come and check it out if you are interested!

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[TMA17]

Awesome

 

[Martial D]

Hey Guys! I recently started a FB forum called "Martial Boxing Forum." It is for the discussion of western boxing as a martial art, whether that is using boxing as a base and adding "martial" elements, or just using boxing-derived methods to improve your martial art. We will be comparing notes on Wing Chun Boxing, 52 Blocks, Panantukan, or anything else with a "boxing flavor." Come and check it out if you are interested!

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Sounds interesting, right up my alley really.

Not interesting enough to join doxbook however.

 

[Tames D]

I'll check it out.