Wing Chun Boxing

[geezer]

...WSL might have been the "King of Talking Hands" back in the day when they still fought on rooftops, but this are different times and most of his students are "Kings of Talking BS"

WSL produced some excellent students, some of whom I would love to train with given the opportunity. Let's not let the anti-social attitudes of certain individuals tarnish the man's legacy.

 

[Martial D]

I don't think anyone has demanded video evidence of any particular user. Myself, I just find it highly unlikely that something is true if there is no affirmative evidence, up to and including video footage.

 

[geezer]

I don't think anyone has demanded video evidence of any particular user. Myself, I just find it highly unlikely that something is true if there is no affirmative evidence, up to and including video footage.

Yes. A little skepticism is a very healthy thing. And not just regarding martial arts!

 

[Martial D]

Yes. A little skepticism is a very healthy thing. And not just regarding martial arts!

Indeed. I have found over my years that just about everyone is selling something. Caveat Emptor.

 

[LFJ]

I don't think anyone has demanded video evidence of any particular user.

KPM, for one, has been demanding video from people for years, on this forum and "the other".

That's his last resort tactic when the only other option is to admit valid criticism. Must have learned that from Phil.

 

[KPM]

KPM, for one, has been demanding video from people for years, on this forum and "the other".

That's his last resort tactic when the only other option is to admit valid criticism. Must have learned that from Phil.

Geez! You are really something! I've only asked for video from fools like you that make big claims but can't back them up!

 

[LFJ]

Geez! You are really something! I've only asked for video from fools like you that make big claims but can't back them up!

What big claim have I made? And, especially what big claim have I made that would require video of me?

 

[drop bear]

In the context that he used it, it was referred to as a race.

Doesn't really matter actually.

By now we all know that @KPM is capable of adjusting his fighting style and @LFJ is not, so that WSL BS uhhmm VT sorry mistype isn't so superior at all.

WSL might have been the "King of Talking Hands" back in the day when they still fought on rooftops, but this are different times and most of his students are "Kings of Talking BS"

Yeah. Mostly I agree with you. Although with a much softer emphasis.

It is very hard to expand a system with so many arbitrary rules.

I can see why a style would not want to step out too far and get manhandled in the adult pool.

But martial arts isn't about what you can do. It is about looking at what you can't do.

 

[drop bear]

What big claim have I made? And, especially what big claim have I made that would require video of me?

Was that the open tournament you were describing by the way?

 

[LFJ]

It is very hard to expand a system with so many arbitrary rules.

VT doesn't have any arbitrary rules.

 

[KPM]

What big claim have I made? And, especially what big claim have I made that would require video of me?

I've already pointed that out multiple times. Not going to keep repeating myself just because you want to play all "innocent". You come across as rather "clueless" instead. But I know that you aren't that dumb.

 

[geezer]

VT doesn't have any arbitrary rules.

Arbitrary basically means "just because I said so". No reason offered. The VT I train may have strong points and weak points, but everything is part of a system, and is done for a reason. Hence nothing is arbitrary.

I assume you feel the same about your WSL-VT.

Now a lot of CMA schools, including WC and VT schools end up doing things "just because sifu says so". Maybe there is a better reason, but since the students don't know it, they are essentially obeying arbitrary dictates. That's OK for a student, ...for a while. Eventually, there comes a time when you need to think for yourself. Hopefully by then the student will understand enough to recognize what is a necessary part of their system, and recognize what may be there just for tradition or style --i.e. arbitrary.

 

[drop bear]

Arbitrary basically means "just because I said so". No reason offered. The VT I train may have strong points and weak points, but everything is part of a system, and is done for a reason. Hence nothing is arbitrary.

Arbitrary as in non negotiational.


Given a reason is not the same as given a choice.

It limits the system.

The second definition. Not the first one.

arbitrary
ˈɑːbɪt(rə)ri/
adjective

1. 1.
   based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
   "an arbitrary decision"
   synonyms: capricious, whimsical, random, chance, erratic, unpredictable, inconsistent, wild, hit-or-miss, haphazard, casual; More
   
   
2. 2.
   (of power or a ruling body) unrestrained and autocratic in the use of authority.
   "a country under arbitrary government"
   synonyms: despotic, tyrannical, tyrannous, peremptory, summary, autocratic, dictatorial, authoritarian, draconian, autarchic, anti-democratic;

 

[drop bear]

VT doesn't have any arbitrary rules.

So the arbitrary rules are just you?

Was that tournament I found the one you were talking about?

I have no issue with that by the way. Maybe as the flagship for the whole style. But it is definitely moving in the right direction.

 

[LFJ]

So the arbitrary rules are just you?

What arbitrary rules do you think there are? Directness and efficiency? That's just a matter of percentages. Break those principles at your own risk.

Was that tournament I found the one you were talking about?

I don't know what video you looked at, but you should be aware that it isn't VT versus everyone else. It's an open-style tournament hosted by a VT group, and competed in by other VT groups and styles from all over.

Your complaint was that you can't face VT in competition. That's not true. You can register for the next one, and I guess request a VT opponent.

 

[geezer]

Arbitrary as in non negotiational.


Given a reason is not the same as given a choice.

It limits the system.

The second definition. Not the first one.

arbitrary
ˈɑːbɪt(rə)ri/
adjective

1. 1.
   based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
   "an arbitrary decision"
   synonyms: capricious, whimsical, random, chance, erratic, unpredictable, inconsistent, wild, hit-or-miss, haphazard, casual; More
   
   
2. 2.
   (of power or a ruling body) unrestrained and autocratic in the use of authority.
   "a country under arbitrary government"
   synonyms: despotic, tyrannical, tyrannous, peremptory, summary, autocratic, dictatorial, authoritarian, draconian, autarchic, anti-democratic;

Thanks for expanding on that. And in the second sense of the word "arbitrary" as being under the autocratic authority of a supreme leader (sifu), a lot of WC, and a lot of TMA in general, certainly qualify.

That's the way it was in my old WT organization, and a large part of why I left. Sometimes it seems that way in the organization I belong to now. Fortunately I'm 1,200 miles away from the organization HQ and can get away with a little free-thinking. Also, I'm pretty sure the organization head doesn't read this forum. Just as well, too. In some ways I suspect he and LFJ share similar world-views.

 

[drop bear]

I don't know what video you looked at, but you should be aware that it isn't VT versus everyone else. It's an open-style tournament hosted by a VT group, and competed in by other VT groups and styles from all over.

Your complaint was that you can't face VT in competition. That's not true. You can register for the next one, and I guess request a VT opponent.

So just fly halfway across the world?

Kind of puts facing a VT out of reach a bit.

Do you have a video of this comp? At what standard are they?

 

[drop bear]

What arbitrary rules do you think there are? Directness and efficiency? That's just a matter of percentages. Break those principles at your

The arbitrary rule you can't cross train is a pretty big one.

 

[LFJ]

So just fly halfway across the world?

Kind of puts facing a VT out of reach a bit.

Do you have a video of this comp? At what standard are they?

Not my problem.

Australians have participated before.

The arbitrary rule you can't cross train is a pretty big one.

That's funny, because I do cross-train.

 

[geezer]

...That's funny, because I do cross-train.

I know you previously mentioned having experience in a number of styles. What do you currently cross-train in ...or at least continue to work at besides WSL-VT? ...and how do you feel that training contributes to you, personally as a martial artist?