William Cheung vs. Emin Boztepe

[DeLamar.J]

The story.. In 1986 Emin challenged William Cheung to a fight at one of his seminars, after Mr. Cheung formally stated [to the world] that he could easily beat any fighter from Emin's former organization. Emin challenged Mr. Cheung in front of his students:argue:. He knocked Mr. Cheung to the ground and punched him about a dozen times. :boxing:

Mr. Cheung, in his own defense, stated that the floor was slippery, his shoes were slippery, that Emin was wearing body armor, and dozens of other excuses:tantrum:. Mr. Cheung's altercation with Emin was recorded on videotape. Emin says, "I didn't ambush Mr. Cheung:idunno:. It was done in full view, and in front of 80 students."

Does anyone know where to get this video? I would love to see it.
Also, any thoughts or comments on this fight?

 

[Phil Elmore]

Excerpted from "How Effective is Wing Chun":

A famous “fight,” which is still discussed today after years of bickering, once took place between William Cheung and a student from another lineage. The choppy video of this event is held up as “proof” of any number of spurious claims. “Cheung can’t fight,” is one. “Cheung got his *** kicked,” is another. “Wing Chun is not street effective,” some conclude. “Wing Chun people can’t grapple,” some argue. Of these, only the latter has even a little validity, though a single scuffle proves very little about the skills of those involved. Anyone, after all, can screw up or have a bad day, and nobody is alert to danger at all times (though they should be).

An objective look at the video (which both sides claim has been edited to the benefit of the other) shows us that A) Cheung protects his center as he’s been taught to do; B) the aggressor mounts him and throws wild blow after wild blow; C) Every time Cheung tries to throw a leg up over his opponent, he slides across the gymnasium floor, providing the viewer with a valuable lesson on the ways in which terrain can screw up our best laid plans.

When the “fight” was over, neither party was injured. So what does this tell us? It tells us almost nothing. From it we learn nothing about Wing Chun as a system (other than the need for cross-training in grappling to cover what is arguably a blind spot in Wing Chun, though most schools do train in “anti-grappling”). We learn relatively little about the two participants, other than that they didn’t hurt each other. We learn, simply, that politics can leave a black eye on a style that no amount of punching can inflict.

I believe there is a right way and a wrong way to perform certain techniques, even though some lineages teach the variations as acceptable. As always, reality is the deciding factor. In my school, for example, we are taught to distribute our weight evenly on both feet for optimum balance and mobility. Anyone who tells you, therefore, that “Wing Chun is ineffective because the weight is placed primarily on the rear leg” is in error – though that error may be the product of poor teaching in a lineage or school imparting improper structure.

When we discuss the efficacy of Wing Chun, then, we must acknowledge that many schools and lineages teach different things. Where there is conflict, we must be biased towards those techniques and principles that offer the best REALISTIC results. All else is not “proof of Wing Chun’s ineffectiveness” – it is proof of poor teaching (or poor learning). The final arbiter is reality, not claims or stories or family trees. Wherever a better alternative exists in the pantheon of Wing Chun masters, it is that alternative that represents “true Wing Chun.”

 

[DeLamar.J]

Good reply Phil. I learned quite a bit.

 

[OULobo]

I think the video is still on Bullshido. Looking at the video from mostly unbiased view and offering my opinion, the fight seemed very up front (no ambush or "sneaky" tricks), Emin out weighs Cheung by quite a bit, no real good shots are landed, but I think if the situation continued Boztepe would've been able to do a little more damage, definitly a good example of how things like setting and terrain can be factors in a fight.

 

[DeLamar.J]

Got it!!

http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=22