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Last Fearner

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pstarr said:
Certainly, I can appreciate with your viewpoint regarding the native martial disciplines of Korea, but taekwondo, by that name, was created by Choi Hong Hi out of Shotokan karate which he learned in Japan (and achieved nidan ranking).

The original taekwondo forms were actually Shotokan forms.

Hi, pstarr.

I can understand why you say this, but it is a common misconception, and mostly due to the narrow scope of historical events. I will try to explain (as best I can in a relatively short post) why the statement that "taekwondo, by that name, was created by Choi Hong Hi out of Shotokan karate..." is incorrect.

First, there is a difference between what is labeled as the hyphenated "Taekwon-do" of General Choi's teaching, and the Korean National Martial Art of "Taekwondo." It seems insignificant, or like splitting hairs to those who are not really aware of what occurred (or have a single, one-sided, handed-down version), but it means a world of difference in the whole, historical development of events.

Think of what Taekwondo is today! Not only the techniques, but the philosophy, culture, traditions, and way of life. General Choi did not invent those things, nor did he create the first school that taught them along with self defense skills. As for the skills, think of what is contained in Taekwondo - - striking with the feet (Gen. Choi did not invent that), Striking with the hands, knees, elbows, etc. (Gen. Choi did not invent those), pressure points, joint locks, take-downs, throws, and grappling (although Gen. Choi's teachings contained some of each of these, he did not invent them, nor did he have an equal balance of each). Many, so-called, taekwondo schools today do not have the proper balance of the ancient skills.

General Choi made statements in his life-time, that he was the first to bring the "hand" and "foot" techniques together, but historical records has shown this to be untrue. Many Masters before him, including his own teachers, used both hand and foot fighting skills in combination. As for the term of "Taekwon-do," there is a dispute as to whether or not Gen. Choi "thought this term up" himself, when he submitted it in 1955, or if someone suggested it to him. I don't know if there is any record of Gen. Choi having used the term, or promoted his "Oh Do Kwan" with that term prior to the 1955 meeting.

The relevant point is, the meeting in 1955 was a group effort, between the Kwan leaders, and the Korean Government, to find a "new name" for their ancient national art - - this means ALL of the skills that were formerly taught in Korea prior to the occupation, and every modern application of that ancient knowledge. Everyone at that meeting represented different factions, yet were working for one common cause.

When someone works for a Corporation, and submits a name at a staff meeting for a product or service, that name becomes the "intellectual property" of that Corporation, and no employee, or former employee (even the person who submitted the name) is allowed to use it without the corporations consent.

The Korean Government chose the name "Taekwon-do," as submitted by Gen. Choi, for the new name of their "National Martial Art." What General Choi did in his own schools, was not established as "Taekwon-do" prior to that meeting. It was the same concept as was done in the other "Kwans." He applied his own personal insights, and teaching methods (including the Chang Hon forms based on Shotokan Karate) as his own unique "Oh Do Kwan" (appropriately "Gym of My Way). As the term "Taekwon-do" became widely accepted (following the 1955 meeting), and Choi had the opportunity to teach what he did to the military, and demonstrate the way of the "Oh Do Kwan" around the world, in his travels, he made the connection between his way of doing things, and the term "Taekwon-do."

The Korean government, and the other Kwan leaders decided to remove him from his positions of authority (which they had generously granted him), and regain control of their art, and the term "Taekwondo" which represented, not the "Oh Do Kwan," but the five original Kwans, and any aspect of previous Martial Art indigenous to Korea. For those who believe that the term "Taekwondo" does not represent anything prior to 1955 (suggesting that it is a "new art" created by one man), they do not understand the intention of the Korean people to re-name their ancient art as it was re-unified, and re-designed in the post-occupation era.

Yes, Gen. Choi had influences in these developments, and offered much leadership, and many good ideas. Certain formats, forms, and teaching styles were shared by many, and adopted by others only to be changed for new ones. No one can say for sure where Gen. Choi learned much of his methods as he was once taught by those who founded the first Kwan in 1944 (Chung Do Kwan), and who were senior to Choi Hong Hi when he was a 4th Dan, and not a even a member of the Korean Army yet, let alone a General.

If you look closely at the age, rank, and experience of all involved at that time, including young Choi Hong Hi, you might get a different perspective on who began what, and why the name "Taekwondo," as accepted by the Korean Government, has little to do with what young Choi Hong Hi, taught in his Oh Do Kwan lineage, or what he later attached to his own personal revelations in the Martial Art. "Taekwon-do" (hyphenated), the "Oh Do Kwan," and the resulting departure of ITF from a Korean authorized World governing body, to Gen. Choi's personal, independent organization, were General Choi's creations. Yet, those creations were not a "new Art." They were mostly re-packaging of what already existed in the past, and in other kwans (including Japanese influence), and was a small sliver of what the Nationally recognized term of "Taekwondo" means to the Korean people.

They are simply not the same thing! The term "Taekwondo" (as it is used in reference to Korea's National Art) should be understood as meaning "The newly revived, and re-organized Ancient Maritial Art of Korea"

With Respects,
CM D.J. Eisenhart
 

Jonathan Randall

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Last Fearner said:
Hi, pstarr.

I can understand why you say this, but it is a common misconception, and mostly due to the narrow scope of historical events. I will try to explain (as best I can in a relatively short post) why the statement that "taekwondo, by that name, was created by Choi Hong Hi out of Shotokan karate..." is incorrect.

They are simply not the same thing! The term "Taekwondo" (as it is used in reference to Korea's National Art) should be understood as meaning "The newly revived, and re-organized Ancient Maritial Art of Korea"

With Respects,
CM D.J. Eisenhart

While, as always, you make some tremendous posts and bring up great and often lesser-known facts, it is simply NOT possible, IMO, to see TKD as a "revived and reorganized Ancient Martial Art of Korea" rather than a heavily, heavily Shotokan influenced art that has taken on distinctly Korean attributes. I'm sorry, but I've spent years in both (Moo Duk Kwan, Oh Do Kwan and, yes, ATA) and JKA style Shotokan. Pre-Olympic TKD has more in common with Japanese (as opposed to Okinawan) Karate than it does to ANY OTHER ART, indigenous Korean arts not excepted. However; I do understand and sympathize with many Korean's reluctance (given the BRUTAL occupation of their country by the Japanese 1905-1945) to credit Japanese sources for their "National Martial Art".
 
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