Who will impact EPAK the most in the next 10 years?

[Brother John]

Originally posted by SThiess
Unless the Ego will be eliminated out of this system there will never be the true spirit of the Martial Arts in Kenpo. So I would say none of the above

I agree with Les.
You tell me which one of these people is unable to 'make progress' or impact the future of Kenpo due to their ego?
How do you know this? Which, if any, do you know personally enough to judge their character?
This isn't an empty 'challenge', but real questions. What is the evidence of this suposed overabundance of 'ego' that you speak of?

Sven, I'm sure your intentions are good, but this is the first really negative post... the rest were pretty positive I think. Too bad. Maybe we can get back on track.

Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by Les
On the subject of ego's, why wasn't MY name mentioned?

Oh Les, You're so vain...
You brobably think this post is about you...
:rofl:
Your Brother
John

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by SThiess
Unless the Ego will be eliminated out of this system there will never be the true spirit of the Martial Arts in Kenpo. So I would say none of the above

I'm fine with your none of the above statment, but If you would Please offer your choice of MWE (you know Master without Ego). To be fair I originaly chose my own instructor, but I changed it to Paul Mills because that is whom my instructor admires most.

 

[Ceicei]

Well, I haven't voted. I would like to say that I know more about each of them than in name only....

I'll definitely have to start going out to more seminars and meet these people. Unfortunately, I won't be going to enough seminars soon to make a concrete judgment for this poll.

Why don't all of you tell us the strong points of each of them, what makes them to be of value as a leader, then perhaps I will be able to cast a better vote?

- Ceicei

 

[Les]

Originally posted by Ceicei
Well, I haven't voted. I would like to say that I know more about each of them than in name only....

I'll definitely have to start going out to more seminars and meet these people. Unfortunately, I won't be going to enough seminars soon to make a concrete judgment for this poll.

Why don't all of you tell us the strong points of each of them, what makes them to be of value as a leader, then perhaps I will be able to cast a better vote?

- Ceicei

Now HERE is an attitude I wholeheartedly respect.

Ceicei, I salute you.

Les

 

[jfarnsworth]

I've only been around 3 kenpo insturctors in my measly 9 years in Kenpo. All 3 will have me back at seminars as long as I can afford them. Those 3 include Mr. Planas, Mr. Wedlake, and Mr. Conatser. I learn plently from each of these individuals so therefore I can not make a comment about the others on the list 'cause I don't know enough about them.

However I can say that I would like to attend seminars from the following people.

Dr. Chapel
Mr. White
Mr. Labounty
Mr. Trejo
Mr. Hancock
:asian:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
I've only been around 3 kenpo insturctors in my measly 9 years in Kenpo. All 3 will have me back at seminars as long as I can afford them. Those 3 include Mr. Planas, Mr. Wedlake, and Mr. Conatser. I learn plently from each of these individuals so therefore I can not make a comment about the others on the list 'cause I don't know enough about them.

However I can say that I would like to attend seminars from the following people.

Dr. Chapel
Mr. White
Mr. Labounty
Mr. Trejo
Mr. Hancock
:asian:

How come I ain't on that list?

 

[howardr]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
I would like to hear a little more about WHY people think a particular person will have the most impact.

I'd really love to hear more of the whys? Thank you.

Somebody else: Dr. Chapel

I'm not entirely sure that my response to this poll is accurate because Dr. Chapel doesn't expend a lot of energy spreading his approach. I guess my vote would be more along the lines of, "Who should or who would you like to see impact EPAK in the next 10 years?"

Briefly some of my reasons (in no particular order):
1. Excellent training methodology: realistic (unlike I've seen elsewhere)
2. IMO superior content: anatomically correct basics, non-pain reliant techniques, non-blunt force trauma reliant techniques, etc.
3. Deals realistically with grappling situations both in the initial assault and during the progression of the encounter
4. Formalized instruction (on the university model) by excellent instructors
5. Detailed written material. Oh, and did I say DETAILED written material?
6. His material includes the psychological aspect of self-defense situations. Vital but often neglected or cliched.
7. His entire approach is one of the only ones that I am aware of that is designed to be consistent with the expectations and reality of our legal system. This one is sadly neglected, entirely or just plain flouted in many other schools. And that's just begging for criminal and civil penalties (not to mention moral culpability).
8. As you get better less is more, more or less. I.e., the better you get the fewer strikes are necessary to extricate yourself from self-defense situations.
9. A whole science of alignments for yourself and misalignments to use against your aggressor. The alignments make you dramatically more powerful and rooted (while remaining just as fast or faster). The misalignments weaken your opponent, break him down, immobilize him. Once you can start to "see" these alignment/misalignment opportunities then IMO workable, spontaneous application and correction in the middle of an encounter against a resisting opponent is achievable. And isn't that the goal (or at least one of THE goals)?
10. Techniques, in their "ideal" stage, are designed to handle a wide range (within anatomically given limits) of assaults. I.e., techniques can actually work because the initial response is based upon a fairly small set of natural, instinctive, biomechanically correct reactions consistent with the inherent and automatic "startle" reflex. Therefore, given the appropriate training regimen one can eventually respond to non-scripted attacks with technique-like defenses. And, one also starts to realize that street attacks, in many instances, aren't really as unscripted as you might have previously thought (see The Psychology of Confrontation, The Gift of Fear).
11. Realistic attacks that are specifically delineated. Grabs are grabs, holds are holds, hugs are hugs, and attempts are attempts. And there is a BIG difference.
12. Oh, and he's funny too. (see that helps when you're getting banged up!)

Well, I guess that wasn't too brief, but that's my "why" off the top of my head.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by SThiess
Unless the Ego will be eliminated out of this system there will never be the true spirit of the Martial Arts in Kenpo. So I would say none of the above

I could name a few other arts where the "ego" is just as bad. Looking at your profile, I notice that you also do Kenpo. Question for you. Does your Inst. have an ego?

Mike

 

[Michael Billings]

First, I am not sure that the premise is correct, specifically, will "American Kenpo" be affected by any one individual, or will the system as a whole, continue to fragment with various lineages now starting to go their own way, under their own Seniors? The Kenpo Fantasy of one person, or one Kenpo are realistically, probably a thing of the past ... if in fact there ever was one Kenpo (we all know better), but we can get closer with one Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate or American Kenpo.

I have been fortunate enough to have trained, either at camps or seminars, with 7 of the 9 instructors listed, (interesting number if you are a Star Trek fan), and see them all as going slightly different places, with slighly different paths.

I am glad someone broght Dr. Chapel in, although his model of Kenpo tends to be more rigourous and scholastically framed, it still THUMPS, and is a variant of American Kenpo. Some of the Seniors mentioned HAVE made their mark and influenced the course of American Kenpo. I am not sure they are intending, or still trying to have more of an influence on Kenpo today. They have found their niche and are happy there, continuing to grow and study where they are. Some are more actively trying to build their organizations.

In either case, I do not see any ONE man as having more of an influence in an arena which has so many different directions it can go. So of course we advocate for our instructor, or favorite person, but what Sigung LaBounty has done to bring his lineage to where it is, may not be at all where Paul Mills has been and is going with his group, as v. Mike Pick and his lineage, or Larry Tatum and his.

Interesting question, but part of a Kenpo Fantasy of one unified, or semi-unified American Kenpo ... not going to happen. But that does not make it bad, just diversified and rich in the type and variety of instruction you can get.

Just my thoughts,
-Michael

 

[SThiess]

Originally posted by Les
That's a very grandiose and sweeping statement.

What did you base it on?

Have you met and spent time with all (or any) of the suggested candidates, so as to form an objective opinion?

Sure, some of these people have a big ego, but all of them have delivered their Kenpo and earned their reputation.

Personally, I don't see how having an ego prevents them from having an impact on Kenpo, so I'm missing your point.

We weren't asked to vote on their personalities, but on their potential to shape the future of Kenpo.

Les.

PS

Here we go again. I dropped this line on purpose to see what happens. And it is interesting how far readers really try to understand it. But anyway that would be a whole new topic.
It is not only about the people that have been listed above most of the times it is also about the people that surround them. I have met almost all of them listed above. To me the most impressive one was Sigung Steve La Bounty, but that is my personal choice. And you are right we are not voting on their personalities but it is their personalities that shapes their art and so the future of Kenpo

 

[SThiess]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Yeah Sven, there is a lot of ego in Kenpo. But if you think that Martial Arts and martial artists exist or are supposed to exist in some Buddhist-Monastery-sublimated-ego-Qui-Chang-Cane-Nirvana...well then you yourself must be living in some kind of 1970's style state of altered consciousness.

It is interesting how you go of on this topic and how much you really know. Pretty narrow minded way of thinking if I might say. Do you always have only BLACK and WHITE in your life. And by the way a higher consciousness has never hurt anyone. And why sould I quite Kenpo, just because everyone does Kenpo "that" way does not mean that I have to do it too. And that is what I am doing.

 

[SThiess]

Originally posted by Brother John
I agree with Les.
You tell me which one of these people is unable to 'make progress' or impact the future of Kenpo due to their ego?
How do you know this? Which, if any, do you know personally enough to judge their character?
This isn't an empty 'challenge', but real questions. What is the evidence of this suposed overabundance of 'ego' that you speak of?

Sven, I'm sure your intentions are good, but this is the first really negative post... the rest were pretty positive I think. Too bad. Maybe we can get back on track.

Your Brother
John

Again as I said earlier John, you read what you want to read. I never denied anyone listed above their reputation or put down what they have done for Kenpo. And I never judged them. Look closly at my statement. And what about the statement NONE of the ABOVE is negative John ? It is what it is, not more not less. My personal opinion. If you make it to yours, analyze and judge it, then you make it negative. I didn't. You see what you want to see.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Thanks to everyone for keeping this thread above the belt.

I can see that this lasted for all of a few days.

Mike

 

[SThiess]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
I'm fine with your none of the above statment, but If you would Please offer your choice of MWE (you know Master without Ego). To be fair I originaly chose my own instructor, but I changed it to Paul Mills because that is whom my instructor admires most.

I do not have a choice of one of your so called MWE (that's a good one by the way). I could say my instructor, but he wouldn't like to hear that. So I leave it as it is.:asian:

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Well, so where do we go now?

Shall we...sling mud at each other...or discuss who is going to impact Kenpo and why...?

I say let's sling mud! Kenpoists are all a bunch of fat egotistical cub scouts who can't recite their concepts and principles fast enough to save themselves against a former high-school grappler in a real street fight.

Now! Name a Kenpo instructor walks the walk and teaches others how to do so as well and tell my why you like 'em!

 

[SThiess]

Originally posted by MJS
I could name a few other arts where the "ego" is just as bad. Looking at your profile, I notice that you also do Kenpo. Question for you. Does your Inst. have an ego?

Mike

I would say he does, although I would say it is very very small (a. But you know the best thing, he does not even know. And to me that is the most impressive lesson that I learn from him every time I see him and we are together working out.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by SThiess

Originally posted by Les

Personally, I don't see how having an ego prevents them from having an impact on Kenpo, so I'm missing your point.

Maybe I can clarify this. There are some people who think that there Inst. is God! Now, is this a bad thing, to not be proud of your Inst.? Absolutely not. However, being proud is one thing. Being arrogant, thinking that your Inst. knows more than anyone else, and even thinking that just because this person is your Inst. that you know more than anyone else, well that IMO, is a prime example of an ego.

Mike

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Well, so where do we go now?

Shall we...sling mud at each other...or discuss who is going to impact Kenpo and why...?

I say let's sling mud! Kenpoists are all a bunch of fat egotistical cub scouts who can't recite their concepts and principles fast enough to save themselves against a former high-school grappler in a real street fight.

Now! Name a Kenpo instructor walks the walk and teaches others how to do so as well and tell my why you like 'em!

OMG--OFK, yeah I'd have to say that this will definately get the mud slinging!! Fun, Fun, Fun:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Mike

 

[Marcus Buonfiglio]

I believe that Michael Pick will impact Kenpo the most in the next 10 years and here is why. Unless I am mistaken he currently has the largest student base. There are 1500 students and growing just in his Kenpo Combatives Program with the military. This is non inclusive of the UKF's student base. The feed back from the combat arena continues to refine his understanding of application and the combat filter that he sees Kenpo through necessitates eliminating theory and building on principal. His understanding of blade application is without peer in the world of Kenpo. He neither perpetuates nor incorporates other systems into his Kenpo and does not cross train. He does however have a very good understanding of the other systems and the principles that they perpetuate. A necessity in understand how to best defeat them is to know what you are up against. Because of the successes of his program with U.S. Army Special Forces he has come to the attention of other branches of the military. His goal is to have Kenpo be the Combative Art for all of our fighting forces. Not only will this have impact on Kenpo in general but will bring world attention to the Combat effectiveness of this art. I think that that is some impact.

Marcus Buonfiglio