Whips?

Discussion in 'General Weapons Discussion' started by MaartenSFS, May 31, 2007.

  1. MaartenSFS

    MaartenSFS Blue Belt

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    I recently got into whipping spinning tops and after I hit myself once had a martial brain fart. Whips are the only area where I am completely at a loss of information. Does anyone think whips are an effective self defense weapon?
     
  2. Sukerkin

    Sukerkin Have the courage to speak softly

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    Short answer, no, Indiana Jones not withstanding :lol:.

    Long answer, as with any weapon, it depends on the environment of engagement and the skill of the wielder.

    However, my guess (and it is just a guess) is that the size of whip that could be conceivably carried for self defence purposes would be more likey to enrage a would-be assailant than stop them.

    A razor tipped cat-o-nine-tails on the other hand :shudders:.
     
  3. OUMoose

    OUMoose Trying to find my place

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    Hehe!

    Another point to think about would be most self-defense oriented weapons are of a type that can be explained away as a tool or job-related implement. Unless you're a lion tamer, or Dr. Jones, you're going to have a hard time explaining away a 10' bullwhip. :)
     
  4. bakxierboxer

    bakxierboxer Yellow Belt

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    Actually, an 8-foot Bucheimer works pretty well....
    Still have mine and it's now about 35 years old.
    Folded in 3rds, it can be draped over your shoulder under as little as a denim jacket with little sign that it's there... learning "how to stand" is the "finishing touch".

    In use, it's seldom deployed at full length. Coiled in 1/4 or 1/3 length it does surprisingly nasty things to opponents when used at the end of CLF-style whipping punches. When they decide it's better to run, THEN you can open it up if you still feel "the need".
    The coiled usage also makes it rather handy when running through a melee something like the "Chinese Boxer" in "55 Days to Peking".... still more CLF action.

    Pete
     
  5. CuongNhuka

    CuongNhuka Senior Master

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    Actuly there is a great combat application. Anyone here wear a tie for work? what about a belt? Ever think about that? I were a belt every day and a tie on wednesdays, I've given it some thought. Granted, I'd try to use it as a controlling device (more like a Japanese Hojo), then a whip per sae
     
  6. tellner

    tellner Senior Master

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    Sukerkin, there are whips and there are whips. A shotted quirt can be deadly, and it's useful in close quarters. The sjambok, both traditional and the SA Police version, is a terrible weapon that can cut to the bone and remove fingers.
     
  7. redfang

    redfang Purple Belt

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    self defense maybe not, recreation, well:)...

    though, as weapons of opportunity, some whipping type items could be useful. how about a two foot long thick rubber strap with a hook on the end, like for tying a load, i can see some potential. its the type of thing one might have in a car and put to effective use.
     
  8. kaizasosei

    kaizasosei Master Black Belt

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    checkout beltfighting. depending on the beltbuckel and the length with which one decides to swing or whip at, belts can be devastating weapons...
    also really dangerous for self..careful. i often used to practice with the buckel in hand as support. even then some belts have these point metal finishes on the tips,,can be very painfull. shockingly painful with goosebumps that never go away or rather keep coming back!!!..
    one can also trap, block or tieup

    j
     
  9. MaartenSFS

    MaartenSFS Blue Belt

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    Well, I do understand that the whip cannot stretch to impossible lengths when swinging on ****. =P

    As with anything, if it's worth doing, I do it well.

    Can't even the longer whips just be rolled up and hung on your belt or around your waist or carried in a shoulder bag?

    True, but if it can be carried concealed and it can effectively be used for non-lethal force (As well), then I still advocate its use. ;)

    That wasn't really what I was getting at. I don't believe in bandanas, et cetera.

    I have several coldsteel sjamboks. Although certainly effective for deterring arseholes, they cannot cut to the bone and remove fingers. I have experimented extensively with them and found that although very useful for self-defense, they cannot be conveniently carried (I.E. You can get to it quickly in a dangerous situation). That's why I developed my Bagunshu (Telescopic baton + "Battoujutsu") system.

    I could see that as being dangerous... - to myself. ;)

    Again, I have seen especially a lot of Chinese weapons similar to this (Shuangjiegun (Nunchaku), three-section staff, meteor hammer, rope dart, chain dart (manriki gusari), et all)and I think that the hazard is more to yourself. For "fighting air" it looks really awesome, but if you actually hit something you will lose all control and kill yourself or, if you are lucky, just get your **** kicked.

    I was more talking of the standard "bull whip" and variants. Something you can get accurate with without killing yourself (Though I know you can hit yourself with those too).
     
  10. CuongNhuka

    CuongNhuka Senior Master

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    You have to remember, weapons like the Meteor hammer do work if you have one and understand how to use it. If couldn't be used in real fight, it wasn't conituned. Simply because it was, pointless continue to use in practice.
    And I didnt say bandana. I said belt (like that thing you use to keep your pants up) and tie (like that thing you wear with a suit).
     
  11. tellner

    tellner Senior Master

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    I'm taking it on faith for the Cold Steel versions. My faith was misplaced. The hippo hide ones - of which I've had three - definitely can. I've removed chicken feet (the chickens were alread dead) with them and cut right through pork shoulder. Do the Cold Steel ones have a bevel and a distal taper?

    The shotted quirt whether braided or made from a bull's pizzle can end up being more a weighted lash than a whip. Very nasty, especially if it's a braided quirt with a wire core and the the ends of the wire exposed. Sort of a pocket knout.
     
  12. MaartenSFS

    MaartenSFS Blue Belt

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    I don't agree with you on the meteor hammer. I believe that even if ones ability to use it was at a very high skill level that is would still have been nearly useless for actual combat. You have to remember that half of especially CMA styles were made up to scare more than fight. Intimidation can go very far.

    As far as the tie: It's basically the same as a bandana and you were talking about tying them up, which is one of the major uses for bandanas, hence my conclusion.

    About the belt I think it could be effective, though it depends on how you use it (I.E, Not like a meteor hammer). ;)
     
  13. MaartenSFS

    MaartenSFS Blue Belt

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    I'm not sure what a bevel and a distal taper are, but you can type sjambok on google images and find a photo of one in a split second. I have a 36" and two 42" (Which were shipped to my mum's house on another continent and she won't post them to me). The 36" seems like a great semi-rigid weapon and hurts like hell. But if a guerilla warfare commando is trying to kill me I don't think it would make him flinch. If I hit him on the head with my steel baton physiology would ensure my victory, but since the "whip" isn't hard enough (I've heard the 42" is) it doesn't seem to be able to do any major damage within the first several strikes. It sounds like the hippo hides are great, but I'm not willing to kill one to get my hands on the whip version. ;)

    As for the squirt: My goal isn't to cut them into ribbons of unrecognisable flesh, but self defense, though the former sounds o so enjoyable.
     
  14. MaartenSFS

    MaartenSFS Blue Belt

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    What about the kind of whips that you can crack as a viable self defense option? All I know is that they sure look fun to play around with. That alone is reason enough to buy one, but if I am to become proficient in it I also want to ensure that if I carry it I can use it when the need arises.
     
  15. Sukerkin

    Sukerkin Have the courage to speak softly

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    Some good and illuminating information here chaps :tup:.

    I'd fogotten you have a fair bit of experience with 'flexible' weapons tellner :rei:.

    Cheers to the information providers (even if you did prove that I posted in haste with too little thought ... well it was in the early hours of the morning :eek:).
     
  16. kaizasosei

    kaizasosei Master Black Belt

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    here in europe where im at now, they have many people flinging around whips in the festivals...those whips are loud..they sound like gunshots.
    i think it would really hurt to get hit by one.
    as a weapon, however, i dunno maybe..but the problem is that you need a little distance and preparation before every strike so it would be good if you didn't have to worry about closing the distance and rendering the weapon less useful. i wouldn't choose it for the above reasons and also because it seems like such disciplinary strike rather than a finishing or warning strike. of course discipline could be seen as a warning too..but
    if i was a guard in some dungeon or something and i had to keep getting up to smack people it would be really helpful to have a whip like that.



    j
     
  17. kaizasosei

    kaizasosei Master Black Belt

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    i've never had a exact whip like that to try but i would imagine that it might be possible to use the whip to cling to stuff by wrapping it around like indiana jones.
     
  18. MaartenSFS

    MaartenSFS Blue Belt

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    I just had an Indiana Jones moment today...

    I was on the roof (14th storey) practising whipping a half kilogram wooden top and the rope caught up around the top, I tried to pull it away, and it launched high into the sky and then dropped. I immediately ran to the edge and looked down (In the middle of a crowded Chinese pedestrian street). People screamed and a large hole opened in the crowd. After the initial shock wore off they turned to look up and started pointing. I took cover and dared not venture down to retrieve the top. I think I need a new hobby, but the whip theory is sound. I could see it wrapping around objects, but not stretching to ten times its normal length to let me swing over ravines (Though that would be cool). =P

    As far as the distance problem, you could carry a secondary weapon, like a telescopic baton, a knife, a gun (Like Indiana?), or even a pen or your fist/feet. And, as was mentioned before, you don't need to use the whole length of the whip to make an effective weapon of it.
     
  19. MaartenSFS

    MaartenSFS Blue Belt

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    I just went ahead and purchased a fine specimen today: http://www.hdwsyp.com/rbq/DSC04355.jpg

    The best way to find out the weapon's effectiveness is by experimenting with it myself.

    By the way, what are the laws regarding whips, as opposed to the harsh laws against my telescopic baton? Can you carry a whip aboard an aeroplane, for example? What are the ramifications for using one for self-defense (Like the one in the photo above)?
     
  20. bakxierboxer

    bakxierboxer Yellow Belt

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    Looks like a reasonable starter.
    From the photo I can't tell if the handle and body of the whip are articulated. Good whips usually have a piece that allows the body of the whip to rotate to prevent twisting which gives a kind of "kick back" or unexpected "twitch" in its movement. Again, a good amount of practice with your own weapon allows familiarity and you develop your own gung in its usage. I also noticed that the "cracker" seems to be rope rather than leather. Hopefully it is easily replaced like the leather ones.

    True... along with experimenting at wearing/concealing it if that is how you intend to use it.

    That will be somewhat dependent on the experience of law enforcement agencies in the area. Many parts of the US had "outlaw" motorcycle gangs whose members thought highly of carrying bullwhips and "blacksnake" whips.
    This resulted in some restrictive legislation.

    In general,it isn't a common tool or dress accessory, so it will cause "some commentary" at the least.
    Some folks like to develop "tricks" with their whips.
    My own favorite was removing a cigarette from a willing victim's mouth.
    "Ah! EVERYBODY does that one!"
    Not really... I liked to do it dead-on with the "victim" facing me.

    Pete
     

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