which karate styles have alot of grappling in its system?

[James Kovacich]

The key to the original question from my standpoint is a A LOT OF GRAPPLING within a Karate style and the fact is none of the traditional styles have that. They have "elements'" of grappling but none of them could produce a grappler based solely on their style. Crosstraing is the key to effectiveness.

The link I posted earlier in the thread was qualified because the Tarow Hayashi was mixing Karate and Judo since the 1960's. He taught them separately also. His son Taiichi carries this on. They also produced professional full contact fighters all the way back to the 1970's.

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[Kung Fu Wang]

To master the grappling art is not as simple as to just learn how to do a "hip throw", or how to do a "single leg". Not only you have to learn how to do it, you have to learn how to counter it too.

Many years ago a school brought 15 students to compete in a local Chinese wrestling tournament. All 15 students losed in their first rounds. Their instructor used exactly the same approach as discussing here, "Extracting the grappling elements from their primary style and train it". It proved that this method is not effective.

 

[K-man]

Will you be able to dig out how to do a "hip throw" from your Kata that doesn't even have a move that looks like "bending head down to touch your knee"? IMO, "cross training" is better approach.

Depends on the hip throw you are describing. Instead of bending over as in judo our hip throw mostly drops into Shiko dachi. This is demonstrated in Seiunchin, Sanseru, Sepei, Sesan, Kururunfa and Suparenpei kata. Cross training helps you find various techniques within the kata once you understand the biomechanics. Unfortunately with the preponderance of sport based karate, very few karate instructors even know the techniques exist. Those who teach kata as a fighting system rather than a collection of techniques will understand where I am coming from. :asian:

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Depends on the hip throw you are describing. Instead of bending over as in judo our hip throw mostly drops into Shiko dachi.

The "hip throw" is to use your hip to bounce your opponent's body off the ground (or to hold on your opponent's waist to lift his body off the ground), and then throw him over your back. The forward bending "intend" is needed.

http://cdn2.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/ogoshi.htm

What do you mean "drops into Shiko dachi"? There is no throwing "intend" there.

The

- Karate guys have no throwing intend.
- Judo guys have no punching intend.
- Boxers have no kicking intend.
- MT guys have no ground game intend.
- ...

The "intend" makes an art unique. A traffic cop can direct traffic all his life by moving his arms. He will never become a MA guy because the missing of "intend".

 

[K-man]

The "hip throw" is to use your hip to bounce your opponent's body off the ground (or to hold on your opponent's waist to lift his body off the ground), and then throw him over your back. The forward bending "intend" is needed.

http://cdn2.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/ogoshi.htm

What do you mean "drops into Shiko dachi"? There is no throwing "intend" there.

The

- Karate guys have no throwing intend.
- Judo guys have no punching intend.
- Boxers have no kicking intend.
- MT guys have no ground game intend.
- ...

The "intend" makes an art unique. A traffic cop can direct traffic all his life by moving his arms. He will never become a MA guy because the missing of "intend".

Sorry. The stance you posted is Heiko dachi, totally different to Shiko dachi. There are a number of hip throws. The one you have posted is in Sepei and I actually used that one as bunkai in my last grading. Normally I prefer throws that don't go over the back for a number of reasons.

I don't know where you obtained the quote but it is totally incorrect for both karate and judo. Original judo had all the strikes. The strikes have all but disappeared as judo has become a sport. Karate has many grappling techniques but once again, as karate has become more of a sport, all you see are the kicks and punches. Modern boxing is a sport, not a martial art.

As to 'intent'. The intent of all martial arts is to get rid of an assailant as quickly and effectively as possible. How you train determines the intent. If you train for sport, that is your intent. If you train RBMA then all the locks, holds and throws come into play. :asian:

 

[K-man]

OK. I just took a quick look and came up with these. It is definitely not all the throws in Goju kata but gives a reasonable representation.

Seisan kata
http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/oguruma.htm

Kururunfa kata
http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/sukuinage.htm

Similar to the one I referred to earlier in at least six kata
http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/ashiguruma.htm

Gekisai kata
http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/deashibarai.htm
and
http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/haraitsurikomiashi.htm
and
http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/ukiotoshi.htm

In many kata
http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/hizaguruma.htm
and
http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/osotoguruma.htm

Sanseru and Kururunfa kata
http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/kibisugaeshi.htm

Seiunchin kata
http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/kosotogake.htm

Sepei and Sanseru kata
http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/moroteseoinage.htm
and
http://www.judoinfo.com/images/nauta/sodetsurikomigoshi.htm

Saifa kata
http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/osotogari.htm

:asian:

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Iain Abernethy Sensei demonstrates quite a few throws and a lot of grappling from Wado Ryu and by default most any Karate style. A good resource would be: http://shop.iainabernethy.com/acatalog/Iain_Abernethy_Books.html

For example: