Perpetual White Belt
Blue Belt
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It was a great event! I reviewed it over on FMATalk as my alter-ego Brock.
Which FMA Teacher Has Made The Greatest Impact on the FMA's?
- Thread starter Brian R. VanCise
- Start date
Rabu
Green Belt
Angel Cabales. Just a thought.
Mark Lynn
Master Black Belt
World Wide
I'd have to go with GM Remy first, Guro Inosanto a close 2nd.
1) GM Remy had already been practicing and teaching arnis years before Guro Dan started, he had already formulated and systemitized Modern arnis and got it into the public schools in the PI prior to Guro Inosanto even starting to teach his backyard group.
2) When Remy came here in the mid 70's he started the seminar circut and I believe the week long training camps. A couple of years later in the early 80's I believe Guro Inosanto started the week long training camps to help create instructors in kali and such.
3) GM Remy lived the life of a vagabond traveling from here and there for many years conducting camps and week end seminars plus little 4-6 hour seminars as well. All over the united states exposing people to his art of Modern Arnis. Guro Inosanto conducted seminars on kali and then also split time with JKD, Silat, Thai Boxing etc. etc. exposing students to a variety of martial arts not just kali.
GM Remy ultimately I would argue for pure arnis (or his system of Modern Arnis containing aspects of jujitsu and karate), taught and influenced more people. That being said, Guro Inosanto has probably influenced more people in the martial arts (as a whole) than GM Remy.
Guro Dan has put out more books, articles, instructors, dvds, tapes etc. etc. than GM Remy, but they have covered a wide area of material beyond the FMA.
This is not to say that all of the other FMA GMs etc. etc. haven't spread or contributed to the propagation of the FMAs around the world. They have. But GM Remy was doing it very early on and he really worked the seminar circut when there really wasn't one.
For myself I saw Guro Inosanto in 1982 and he has really impacted me in not just FMA but in the other systems he taught as well in my younger years. I started learning Modern Arnis in 1995 and have pretty much stayed with it and Kombatan Arnis.
Mark
I'd have to go with GM Remy first, Guro Inosanto a close 2nd.
1) GM Remy had already been practicing and teaching arnis years before Guro Dan started, he had already formulated and systemitized Modern arnis and got it into the public schools in the PI prior to Guro Inosanto even starting to teach his backyard group.
2) When Remy came here in the mid 70's he started the seminar circut and I believe the week long training camps. A couple of years later in the early 80's I believe Guro Inosanto started the week long training camps to help create instructors in kali and such.
3) GM Remy lived the life of a vagabond traveling from here and there for many years conducting camps and week end seminars plus little 4-6 hour seminars as well. All over the united states exposing people to his art of Modern Arnis. Guro Inosanto conducted seminars on kali and then also split time with JKD, Silat, Thai Boxing etc. etc. exposing students to a variety of martial arts not just kali.
GM Remy ultimately I would argue for pure arnis (or his system of Modern Arnis containing aspects of jujitsu and karate), taught and influenced more people. That being said, Guro Inosanto has probably influenced more people in the martial arts (as a whole) than GM Remy.
Guro Dan has put out more books, articles, instructors, dvds, tapes etc. etc. than GM Remy, but they have covered a wide area of material beyond the FMA.
This is not to say that all of the other FMA GMs etc. etc. haven't spread or contributed to the propagation of the FMAs around the world. They have. But GM Remy was doing it very early on and he really worked the seminar circut when there really wasn't one.
For myself I saw Guro Inosanto in 1982 and he has really impacted me in not just FMA but in the other systems he taught as well in my younger years. I started learning Modern Arnis in 1995 and have pretty much stayed with it and Kombatan Arnis.
Mark
Doc_Jude
3rd Black Belt
You know, in some ways I see folks like Remy Presas or Dan Inosanto as being the primary forces in bringing FMA to the West. However, there's an angle where one could see individuals like Mark Denny (Dog Bros) as having the greatest impact LATELY. I think that it's a little too subjective, not as far as styles go but more what you find valuable in FMAs. Maybe it's generational, hell, I don't know.
But if you put in Guro Marc, then you have to add in Eric Knaus and Arlan Sanford. The three together have done a bunch, but even they would have had some trouble if it were nto for Mr. Inosanto.
Doc_Jude
3rd Black Belt
What "trouble" would they have had? I'm not following. Are we supposed to be simply seeking the avenues or individuals through which FMAs spread around the world, or are we talking about FMA teachers making an impact?
That's all I'm saying. If simply spreading good FMAs is the issue, that's one thing. Some folks may look at all of the FMAs out there and see that the Dog Brothers now have the best thing going.
From my personal experience, I'd have to agree. The Filipino martial skills have always been there--lying hidden away...Until Dan Inosanto and Bruce Lee exposed them to the world, first through films(The game of Death), then through instruction, seminars, books, and later, videos. I had Filipino friends who told me that before Inosanto and Lee catapulted the FMA's into the spotlight, that these arts had no rep even in the Philippines. Everybody was studying Judo and Karate, or even boxing! Only the foreign arts had status.
Then a generation later, Karate, Kung-fu and the TMA's in general were reduced to a joke, the subject of countless parody movies (can you make crazy Kung-fu screams?) and Saturday morning cartoons. Today's youth want more "reality" in the form of MMA, full-contact cage fighting and streetwise application. The Dog Bros. have provided that for the FMA's. The great masters have always been there, but without somebody to reach out to each generation, the FMA's could gradually drift back into obscurity.
avm247
Yellow Belt
Angel Cabales opened the first commercial school in the US in 1966.
Leo Giron was Dan Inosanto's first FMA instructor, if I recall correctly....
Ramiro A Estalilla, Sr taught Kabaroan in Minneapolis, MN in 1923-1929 (???)
Dan Inosanto's Filipino Martial Arts was groundbreaking when it was first introduced...
GM Ramiro Estalilla Jr helped to end the feud between GM Cabales and GM Giron.
Professor Presas spread Modern Arnis through out the world and instituted it as part of the educational curriculum in PI under former Pres. Marcos.
(I could be wrong on the above, but that is what I recall reading from various sources, if so, I humbly apologize.)
Can you pick just one?
Leo Giron was Dan Inosanto's first FMA instructor, if I recall correctly....
Ramiro A Estalilla, Sr taught Kabaroan in Minneapolis, MN in 1923-1929 (???)
Dan Inosanto's Filipino Martial Arts was groundbreaking when it was first introduced...
GM Ramiro Estalilla Jr helped to end the feud between GM Cabales and GM Giron.
Professor Presas spread Modern Arnis through out the world and instituted it as part of the educational curriculum in PI under former Pres. Marcos.
(I could be wrong on the above, but that is what I recall reading from various sources, if so, I humbly apologize.)
Can you pick just one?
Theres a lot of talk about the '70's and '80's but what about 1966?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8gFjY7G34E&feature=PlayList&p=2A55E9DE420A1264&index=50http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8gFjY7G34E&feature=PlayList&p=2A55E9DE420A1264&index=50
Dan Anderson
Master of Arts
Same here. Guro Dan was making some waves prior to GM Remy arriving to the US but it was GM Remy who really broke through the closed seminar idea and made FMA available to all with his slogan "The Art Within Your Art." There were a number of teachers prior to GM Remy getting here but FMA was really a small deal up til then.
Here's a thought. If you want to figure out who was the most influential person in FMA in the US it woulod have to be Renardo Barden. He is the one who gave GM Remy so much play in Karate Illustrated and Black Belt magazines in the early 1980's
Yours,
Dan Anderson
Mananandata
White Belt
I would go with Dan Inosanto and of course, we all know that he was a student of so many icons of FMA so there you go.
Stan
Green Belt
Very interesting discussion.
I wonder, what's next for the FMA's in the West? Of the masters mentioned, all have been wildly talented and influential. But few if any have emphasized their art as a primary art to be taught in established schools. This is not to say that the systems are not complete in a technical sense. Just that, as discussed in this thread, often the key to exposing Filipino arts was to get people in other arts such as Kempo, Tae Kwon Do, or the more Chinese-influenced elements of JKD to take an active interest.
What does everyone think? Will there be a time or a person who establishes a Filipino art as a primary, mainstream art, that a person off the street with no previous experience seeks out, for all the reasons noobs generally get into martial arts?
I wonder, what's next for the FMA's in the West? Of the masters mentioned, all have been wildly talented and influential. But few if any have emphasized their art as a primary art to be taught in established schools. This is not to say that the systems are not complete in a technical sense. Just that, as discussed in this thread, often the key to exposing Filipino arts was to get people in other arts such as Kempo, Tae Kwon Do, or the more Chinese-influenced elements of JKD to take an active interest.
What does everyone think? Will there be a time or a person who establishes a Filipino art as a primary, mainstream art, that a person off the street with no previous experience seeks out, for all the reasons noobs generally get into martial arts?
Darrin Cook
Yellow Belt
I think that some FMA are "popularizers," people who promote the martial art and introduce it to a larger audience. In this category I would put:
Guro Dan Inosanto, whose book on the FMA was my introduction to the arts.
GM Remy Presas, who amazes me with the number of students taught or injfluenced by him. His Modern Arnis book is in every National Bookstore in the Philippines.
Doce Pares (the Canete Brothers) who sponsor tournaments in the Philippines, where they are perhaps the most visible FMA's, at least in Cebu City
Then there are those who are "authorities." In this category I would put:
GM Angel Cabales, who was one of the first to open an FMA school in the US
GM Leo Giron, who was also one of the first to teach in the US.
Even though Giron and Cabales were rivals, practically every California FMA was either taught or influenced by one of these two. Whom did Guro Inosanto learn from? Who had the answers when Dan had questions? Manong Leo.
In the Philippines, at least in Cebu City, GM Anciong Bacon was the authority. GM Giron had actually fought in WW II, and Anciong had fought in full contact stick matches. In Cebu City schools you could divide people into "Balintawak" or "Not Balintawak." While Presas was a popularizer, he regarded Anciong's student and peer, Timor Maranga, as an authority.
Guro Dan Inosanto, whose book on the FMA was my introduction to the arts.
GM Remy Presas, who amazes me with the number of students taught or injfluenced by him. His Modern Arnis book is in every National Bookstore in the Philippines.
Doce Pares (the Canete Brothers) who sponsor tournaments in the Philippines, where they are perhaps the most visible FMA's, at least in Cebu City
Then there are those who are "authorities." In this category I would put:
GM Angel Cabales, who was one of the first to open an FMA school in the US
GM Leo Giron, who was also one of the first to teach in the US.
Even though Giron and Cabales were rivals, practically every California FMA was either taught or influenced by one of these two. Whom did Guro Inosanto learn from? Who had the answers when Dan had questions? Manong Leo.
In the Philippines, at least in Cebu City, GM Anciong Bacon was the authority. GM Giron had actually fought in WW II, and Anciong had fought in full contact stick matches. In Cebu City schools you could divide people into "Balintawak" or "Not Balintawak." While Presas was a popularizer, he regarded Anciong's student and peer, Timor Maranga, as an authority.
In addition, GM Presas asked GM Bacon to teach when he left Cebu (* Another story *) and GM Bacon told him he could but as he did not teach only Balintawak, not to call it Balintawak.
He also referred many people to Manong Ted Buot in SE Michigan as the person to go to for Balintawak training. He considered Manong Ted an Authority by his actions and words, even if he never used the word authority.
Mark Lynn
Master Black Belt
Stan
I believe this has occurred in Germany with the DAV. The DAV has established the FMA as a main art to be taught, instead of the add on status it has here in the USA.
Mark
HKphooey
Senior Master
While I think many of the FMA greats had great impact, I have another view on this... As a newcomer to the art, the instructors and teachers propagating the FMA, have (and will continue) to have the greatest impact. With an art like American Kenpo, the following was was so great that after GM Parker's death it was easy to keep the art alive and flourishing. Many of you continue to teach the FMA's and are not making a whole lot of money off it. You do it for the love and you do it to keep the art alive. Many of these instructors post on this forum (and I have yet to meet you) and have taught me a lot about the history and evolution of the FMA's. I would hate to start listing names because I would leave some out by error. The FMA's made me look even closer at my base art (kenpo) and take things to another level.
Thank you to all instructors who have posted info on the FMA's, kept a school going when the money was tight, taught a few students in your garage, traveled 100's of miles to learn, hosted seminars (and lost money), wrote books, created videos, posted on youtube, passed on a great FMA story, and most of all - passed on the knowledge to others to help the FMS's grow (or shoulf I say "flow"). You are the unsung heroes of the art.
Sensei Frank, thanks for introducing me to such a great art and philosophy!
Thank you to all instructors who have posted info on the FMA's, kept a school going when the money was tight, taught a few students in your garage, traveled 100's of miles to learn, hosted seminars (and lost money), wrote books, created videos, posted on youtube, passed on a great FMA story, and most of all - passed on the knowledge to others to help the FMS's grow (or shoulf I say "flow"). You are the unsung heroes of the art.
Sensei Frank, thanks for introducing me to such a great art and philosophy!
Brian Jones
Blue Belt
I have to say Remy Presas, just becuase of all he did to introduce FMA to so many people world wide through his seminars. Also for his idea that you don't have to abandon what you know to do Modern Arnis. This made it much more appealing for people to explore the art.
Darrin Cook
Yellow Belt
HKPhooey,
Excuse me if this is off topic, but I started in Kenpo, too. Once I studied the Filipino martial arts, I was able to see Kenpo in a whole different light.
I think some of the FMA training would help a practitioner apply the kenpo moves spontaneously.
Excuse me if this is off topic, but I started in Kenpo, too. Once I studied the Filipino martial arts, I was able to see Kenpo in a whole different light.
I think some of the FMA training would help a practitioner apply the kenpo moves spontaneously.
i think, from reading through the pages, that people have misunderstood the question. having the greatest impact is different than bringing it forward to the public, at large.
i remember reading about grandmaster presas and all the seminars he did and the fact that he got into the korean schools, quite a feat in itself. but are we talking about the art itself or the popularizing of the art? making it popular, in our culture, is dan inosanto, in that he brought it into mainstream film, and because of his popularity as a friend and student of bruce lee, he was able to do this. even bruce lee brought the idea of kali forward in enter the dragon, with his use of the double batons. even though he wasnt a filipino stylist.
grandmaster presas was known primarily in the martial arts community and didnt really break into mass media. but his impact on spreading the filipino arts is legendary.
then there are those instructors who have taught the art, refined the art, and spread the art. the canete's, with their doce pares, have certainly had a great impact on the arts. angel cabales. floro villabrille, who dan inosanto cites as one of the greatest living escrimadors, when he wrote the filipino martial arts book.
there are many who have been influential and have had a great impact on the filipino martial arts. rather than trying to find the best, maybe we should concentrate on naming the ones who have contributed and what they have contributed.
i remember reading about grandmaster presas and all the seminars he did and the fact that he got into the korean schools, quite a feat in itself. but are we talking about the art itself or the popularizing of the art? making it popular, in our culture, is dan inosanto, in that he brought it into mainstream film, and because of his popularity as a friend and student of bruce lee, he was able to do this. even bruce lee brought the idea of kali forward in enter the dragon, with his use of the double batons. even though he wasnt a filipino stylist.
grandmaster presas was known primarily in the martial arts community and didnt really break into mass media. but his impact on spreading the filipino arts is legendary.
then there are those instructors who have taught the art, refined the art, and spread the art. the canete's, with their doce pares, have certainly had a great impact on the arts. angel cabales. floro villabrille, who dan inosanto cites as one of the greatest living escrimadors, when he wrote the filipino martial arts book.
there are many who have been influential and have had a great impact on the filipino martial arts. rather than trying to find the best, maybe we should concentrate on naming the ones who have contributed and what they have contributed.
