where is everybody?

[Manny]

nice to meet you Manny. that's awesome that you have a third degree black belt in TKD. After practicing TKD for a while I became passionate about martial arts. I posted all kinds of videos and wrote a lot about how TKD is underrated. I felt like it was underrated because I went to a lot of forums that said it is a sport martial art for whatever reasons. This website, however, seems to give TKD the credentials it deserves. My favorite thing to talk about is all things TKD. I also like talking about martial arts in general, though i have limited knowledge about them. Even with TKD i am no expert even though i've been practicing it for a while. Some of my favorite martial arts to talk about are MMA, BJJ, and Krav Maga. To be honest, on this website so far I have noticed a general lack of courtesy which turns me off. but i guess all forums are like that? i've seen some trash talking and that just isn't my thing. I like polite, courteous, respectful conversations about varying aspects of Martial Arts.

Well I think TKD is an awesome martial art, however I am not blind and know that a little extra of something is good for me and for TKD, that's why I crosstrained in American Kenpo Karate, dis some judo when i Was a boy and did some aikido some months ago.

What really bothers me is the way TKD is presented these days, I eman rigtht now TKD is a kidie sport oriented kind of martial art and you know, the focus on competition is heavy while the true martial art in some ways is fading away.

I am not againts sport tkd but what really piss me off is the great effort to almost everyone inside tkd to do only competition.

I will be gled to keep in topuch with you and discuss so mmany things about martial arts.

El Manny

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

Well I think TKD is an awesome martial art, however I am not blind and know that a little extra of something is good for me and for TKD, that's why I crosstrained in American Kenpo Karate, dis some judo when i Was a boy and did some aikido some months ago.

What really bothers me is the way TKD is presented these days, I eman rigtht now TKD is a kidie sport oriented kind of martial art and you know, the focus on competition is heavy while the true martial art in some ways is fading away.

I am not againts sport tkd but what really piss me off is the great effort to almost everyone inside tkd to do only competition.

I will be gled to keep in topuch with you and discuss so mmany things about martial arts.

El Manny

I think Judo is a great idea, in my opinion, the optimum martial artists is versed in both striking and grappling. My TKD does some BJJ but not a lot. in light of that, i kind of prefer striking to grappling, to me it is more fun. i still might take up BJJ or Judo or something at some point. Aikido is a great martial art too, i know a few people who take it. as far as people trying to make TKD into a sport and only a sport, it all depends on your dojang. sometimes it can be difficult to find a quality dojang, due to the fact that TKD is the most popular martial art on earth means there are plenty to choose from. my dojang teaches both the sport aspect of it and the self defense aspect of it. so while we are sparring, we do the sport TKD. but oftentimes in practice, we do the self defense aspect. for instance, during sparring we are not allowed to punch the face, which everyone knows is forbidden in TKD. however, during practice, we practice face punches. despite the fact that my dojang is WTF, we still do a lot of punching, not in sparring but in training.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I think Judo is a great idea, in my opinion, the optimum martial artists is versed in both striking and grappling. My TKD does some BJJ but not a lot. in light of that, i kind of prefer striking to grappling, to me it is more fun. i still might take up BJJ or Judo or something at some point. Aikido is a great martial art too, i know a few people who take it. as far as people trying to make TKD into a sport and only a sport, it all depends on your dojang. sometimes it can be difficult to find a quality dojang, due to the fact that TKD is the most popular martial art on earth means there are plenty to choose from. my dojang teaches both the sport aspect of it and the self defense aspect of it. so while we are sparring, we do the sport TKD. but oftentimes in practice, we do the self defense aspect. for instance, during sparring we are not allowed to punch the face, which everyone knows is forbidden in TKD. however, during practice, we practice face punches. despite the fact that my dojang is WTF, we still do a lot of punching, not in sparring but in training.

TKD includes throws, joint locks, takedowns... this material may be left out in some schools, and that is sad. But it's there.
In my experience, most arts cover all the bases. Eventually. It's more a matter of emphasis and timing.
And just FYI, there is no such thing as WTF taekwondo. Your school is (most likely) affiliated with the Kukkiwon. The WTF is strictly for the promotion and supervision of Olympic competition. Nothing more.

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

TKD includes throws, joint locks, takedowns... this material may be left out in some schools, and that is sad. But it's there.
In my experience, most arts cover all the bases. Eventually. It's more a matter of emphasis and timing.
And just FYI, there is no such thing as WTF taekwondo. Your school is (most likely) affiliated with the Kukkiwon. The WTF is strictly for the promotion and supervision of Olympic competition. Nothing more.

i did not know that about no such thing as WTF. i also did not know that takedowns and whatnot were a part of TKD... like i said we do some but not a lot. maybe as i continue to advance we will do more... now that i think about it i see the black belts doing takedowns a lot more than the rest of us. it may be true that most arts cover all the bases, but i think varying martial arts put more emphasis on various techniques. for instance, BJJ has strikes but puts more emphasis on takedowns than TKD, and TKD has grappling but puts more emphasis on striking than BJJ. that's just my understanding

 

[Dirty Dog]

i did not know that about no such thing as WTF. i also did not know that takedowns and whatnot were a part of TKD... like i said we do some but not a lot. maybe as i continue to advance we will do more... now that i think about it i see the black belts doing takedowns a lot more than the rest of us. it may be true that most arts cover all the bases, but i think varying martial arts put more emphasis on various techniques. for instance, BJJ has strikes but puts more emphasis on takedowns than TKD, and TKD has grappling but puts more emphasis on striking than BJJ. that's just my understanding

That's why I said "it's more a matter of emphasis and timing"... TKD teaches strikes first and foremost, but if you're being taught the entire art, it will include takedowns, throws and joint locks.
Fact is, you're probably being taught them now, even if you're not aware of it. I don't know which forms your school uses, but if it's a KKW school (as seems likely from things you've said), you're likely learning the taegeuk forms. There are throws, takedowns and locks in those forms. They're just not obvious, since they're one-person forms.

 

[TrueJim]

i did not know that about no such thing as WTF...

Yah technically the name of the style is Kukkiwon-style, since it's defined by the Kukkiwon. You can read more about the Kukkiwon here: Kukkiwon - Taekwondo Wiki

That having been said, it's very common for people to refer to this as WTF-style. I just ran into another example of this yesterday. Somebody I don't know emailed me about something related to the taekwondo wiki, and they mentioned that they had just started at this school: About Red Phoenix Tae Kwon Do When I went to the link for that school, I saw:

• Master Cha's life has been devoted to his pursuit of Tae Kwon Do. Presently he holds a World Tae Kwon Do Federation 7th degree Black Belt.

So why would Master Cha describe his belt as being a WTF 7th degree instead of a Kukkiwon 7th degree? The WTF is the sports federation responsible for Olympic taekwondo, it's associated with the Kukkiwon-style, and more people have heard of the WTF than of the Kukkiwon. So if you're trying to advertise how awesome your school is, it's better advertising to say it's a WTF school than to say it's a Kukkiwon school.

By the way, I looked up that school on the Kukkiwon's dojang-finder just to confirm that indeed, it really is a Kukkiwon-registered school.

I think the ATA folks have a somewhat similar problems. Technically the name of the style is Songahm-style taekwondo, but that's the style defined by the American Taekwondo Association (ATA), so everybody just calls it ATA-style, which technically isn't accurate.

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

That's why I said "it's more a matter of emphasis and timing"... TKD teaches strikes first and foremost, but if you're being taught the entire art, it will include takedowns, throws and joint locks.
Fact is, you're probably being taught them now, even if you're not aware of it. I don't know which forms your school uses, but if it's a KKW school (as seems likely from things you've said), you're likely learning the taegeuk forms. There are throws, takedowns and locks in those forms. They're just not obvious, since they're one-person forms.

actually... after what everyone told me about my school... i am thinking pretty seriously about changing schools. I was looking for a TKD school taught at a YMCA near where i live actually because of you actually... haven't found one yet. and though i love TKD, i am open to the possibility of changing to a different martial art. There is an MMA place near where I live... but yeah from the grappling i have done i didn't like it much, although to be a balanced fighter i feel like i need to learn some, but i prefer striking, its more fun to me, just my personal preference. maybe i haven't given grappling enough of a chance

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

Yah technically the name of the style is Kukkiwon-style, since it's defined by the Kukkiwon. You can read more about the Kukkiwon here: Kukkiwon - Taekwondo Wiki

That having been said, it's very common for people to refer to this as WTF-style. I just ran into another example of this yesterday. Somebody I don't know emailed me about something related to the taekwondo wiki, and they mentioned that they had just started at this school: About Red Phoenix Tae Kwon Do When I went to the link for that school, I saw:

• Master Cha's life has been devoted to his pursuit of Tae Kwon Do. Presently he holds a World Tae Kwon Do Federation 7th degree Black Belt.

So why would Master Cha describe his belt as being a WTF 7th degree instead of a Kukkiwon 7th degree? The WTF is the sports federation responsible for Olympic taekwondo, it's associated with the Kukkiwon-style, and more people have heard of the WTF than of the Kukkiwon. So if you're trying to advertise how awesome your school is, it's better advertising to say it's a WTF school than to say it's a Kukkiwon school.

By the way, I looked up that school on the Kukkiwon's dojang-finder just to confirm that indeed, it really is a Kukkiwon-registered school.

I think the ATA folks have a somewhat similar problems. Technically the name of the style is Songahm-style taekwondo, but that's the style defined by the American Taekwondo Association (ATA), so everybody just calls it ATA-style, which technically isn't accurate.

my TKD school told me there is WTF TKD and ITF TKD. there may be more that i am unaware of. i always thought it was funny that the martial art is named "WTF" (as in what the f***) lol . but yeah its news to me that the real term is Kukkiwon. but yeah, thanks for all the info!

 

[TrueJim]

my TKD school told me there is WTF TKD and ITF TKD. there may be more that i am unaware of. i always thought it was funny that the martial art is named "WTF" (as in what the f***) lol . but yeah its news to me that the real term is Kukkiwon. but yeah, thanks for all the info!

The two biggest styles are:

• Kukkiwon/World Taekwondo Federation - WTF
• Chang Hon/International Taekwon-do Federation - ITF, which is actually split into three distinct federations that all go by the same name and practice more-or-less the same style

In the U.S.:

• Songahm/American Taekwondo Association - ATA is also popular

Then there are a number of niche styles.

• Jhoon Rhee, the first taekwondo instructor living in the U.S., has his own style that's simply called Jhoon Rhee style (I believe)
• There's a niche style called Ho-Am style, also known as Tiger Rock
• There's another niche style called Wan Jeon Han
• And then there are a number of "traditional taekwondo" styles that go by the names of the kwans from which they originated.

To my knowledge, those are all the styles of martial arts that call themselves taekwondo. Then on top of that there are a number of hybrid martial arts that incorporate taekwondo. You can find a full list here: Taekwondo - Taekwondo Wiki

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

I am thinking pretty seriously about changing dojangs because there are a number of things about my current one that really bother me... temperamental Grandmaster, 350$ for training gear, being forced to take tests during testing time (which just so happens to cost 60 dollars!), very, very few adults, there is no class that is just for adults, just adults and teenagers, with a minimum age of 12, but sometimes kids even younger than that are training with us... I'm 31 years old, I don't want to train with a 9 year old! sometimes i feel like Dwight Schrute from the tv show the Office (there is an episode showing him practicing karate with a bunch of kids) so yeah there are a bunch of things about my dojang that i don't like... but i'm starting to suspect that a LOT of dojangs are just as bad as mine...maybe due to the fact that TKD is the most popular martial art in the world there are so many bull**** dojangs. i don't want to bash too hard on my current dojang, i have had a lot of fun training at it, and aside from the Grandmaster (who is nice sometimes) all of the other teachers are super nice and super patient.

I noticed that you mentioned that there is a style of TKD called Tiger Rock, which is the name of the school that i am considering transitioning to, i thought it was just the name of the school, not the name of the style. would you recommend it? it is the only TKD place I can find in my area that doesn't look like a kindergarten camp, although it does have a kids camp, but it claims to have a very serious adult portion as well, i'm gonna call them tomorrow and ask a lot of questions to see if they are what i'm looking for. with all the TKD schools in my area, there's got to be ONE that isn't a kiddie money machine dojang!

 

[WaterGal]

lol! I have this photograph for people who think Taekwondo is not crucial. I know it has a Chinese flag in the background but it is Taekwondo... in ChinaView attachment 19352

Ack, that board holder is just asking to get kicked in the chest holding the board like that for that kick. I say that from experience, hahaha.

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

Ack, that board holder is just asking to get kicked in the chest holding the board like that for that kick. I say that from experience, hahaha.

good point, i wondered about that

 

[WaterGal]

tell me what you think about this... every 6 weeks maybe a little more comes belt testing time, and you don't get to decide whether or not you test, it is mandatory, and it costs 60$. this kind of made me feel like Grandmaster Chung is just out for the money. That would make me sad as i have a lot of respect for the guy. sparring gear at the school costs 350$ which is a huge rip off (i can get it off the internet for 140$) but you are required to buy it from the school. Now i can understand that they need money, and can even deal with paying for the super over price sparring gear, but the being forced to test every time testing time comes just bothers me... maybe all martial arts schools do that? i don't know. cause i want to master the techniques as i go along, so once i do get my black belt, it won't be a half *** blackbelt... what i mean by half *** blackbelt is people who memorize the forms and get flexible but don't properly master the moves. this is one of my gripes with being forced to test every time testing time comes... i want to move up the ranks when i am well and ready, but maybe all martial arts schools are like that i don't know

The mandatory testing would be a red flag for me.

Some background - my fiancé and I have a commercial school. Running a school is very expensive, and charging for tests is a good way to defray the costs, without having the monthly tuition be sky-high. Also, tests generally mean extra work for the teacher(s) and there are costs like certificates, new belts, boards to break, etc. So unlike some people, I have no problem with a school charging a testing fee.

The issue I have with what you're describing is that testing is mandatory, and it sounds like people are getting passed who don't know the moves. Not everybody is going to be ready every 2 months (let alone 6 weeks; that's pretty fast). Some people will take 3 or 4 or 5 months to be ready, because they have a hard time with certain material, or they miss some classes, or whatever. Now, sometimes people are ready and are just being hard on themselves or lazy or something, and need to be told "you're going to test this time". But then, other times, someone will want to test and aren't ready, and need to be told to wait. If they're having everyone test and pass every time, that's about money.

 

[WaterGal]

Oh, and as far as the sparring gear goes, what are you getting for $350? I mean, there's a big range out there in terms of what's available. If it's $350 for a complete WTF-approved Adidas set (edit: or Kwon, which is also a good WTF-approved brand) with a gear bag, and they size it for you and all that, I think that's a reasonable price. But if you're paying $350 for an off-brand hogu, helmet and some cloth arm and shin pads, that's a high price.

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

The mandatory testing would be a red flag for me.

Some background - my fiancé and I have a commercial school. Running a school is very expensive, and charging for tests is a good way to defray the costs, without having the monthly tuition be sky-high. Also, tests generally mean extra work for the teacher(s) and there are costs like certificates, new belts, boards to break, etc. So unlike some people, I have no problem with a school charging a testing fee.

The issue I have with what you're describing is that testing is mandatory, and it sounds like people are getting passed who don't know the moves. Not everybody is going to be ready every 2 months (let alone 6 weeks; that's pretty fast). Some people will take 3 or 4 or 5 months to be ready, because they have a hard time with certain material, or they miss some classes, or whatever. Now, sometimes people are ready and are just being hard on themselves or lazy or something, and need to be told "you're going to test this time". But then, other times, someone will want to test and aren't ready, and need to be told to wait. If they're having everyone test and pass every time, that's about money.

you took the words right out of my mouth. i just posted a thread asking people if they know a quality dojang in Northside Atlanta... specifically Alpharetta area. that's cool that you have your own school... but yeah mandatory testing stresses me out, and one of the cardinal reasons i take TKD is for relaxation... after practicing really hard for an hour at TKD, endorphins kick in and make me feel happy and relaxed. but yeah i have a anxiety disorder, and i have to do everything in my power to stay as calm as possible so things don't get out of hand, i mean i have a pretty severe problem, it's even made me suicidal before. so them putting pressure on me to take a test at this date is something that isn't good for me. you mentioned that operating a school costs money, i am happy to pay them money! if they need more money no problem! just like what you said, about being pressured and if i skip out on testing day i run the risk of pissing off Grandmaster Chung, who has something of a temper, another thing people on this website told me is unacceptable at a TKD school. the instructors can KICK, but a lot of the student blackbelts don't even have such great kicks... that tells you something right there!

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

Oh, and as far as the sparring gear goes, what are you getting for $350? I mean, there's a big range out there in terms of what's available. If it's $350 for a complete WTF-approved Adidas set with a gear bag, and they size it for you and all that, I think that's a reasonable price. But if you're paying $350 for an off-brand hogu, helmet and some cloth arm and shin pads, that's a high price.

helmet, chest guard basically, unless i am forgetting something. i found it online for 140$

 

[WaterGal]

helmet, chest guard basically, unless i am forgetting something. i found it online for 140$

You can definitely get everything you need to get started with Olympic-style sparring for a price like that. Some brands are more expensive/high-end than others, which is more what I was asking about. $140 and $350 can both be reasonable prices, depending on the brand and the amount of gear it is.

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

You can definitely get everything you need to get started with Olympic-style sparring for a price like that. Some brands are more expensive/high-end than others, which is more what I was asking about. $140 and $350 can both be reasonable prices, depending on the brand and the amount of gear it is.

what do you think about the fact that we are required to buy our gear from the school? i mean i guess that could be understandable... usually when people spar in my school it is like, one person kicks, then the other person kicks, so you take turns kicking each other, usually with a specific kick, once in a blue moon we are allowed to do actual sparring, usually towards the end of class, by which time my arms and legs are tired which makes it harder to kick properly

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

actually... after what everyone told me about my school... i am thinking pretty seriously about changing schools. I was looking for a TKD school taught at a YMCA near where i live actually because of you actually... haven't found one yet. and though i love TKD, i am open to the possibility of changing to a different martial art. There is an MMA place near where I live... but yeah from the grappling i have done i didn't like it much, although to be a balanced fighter i feel like i need to learn some, but i prefer striking, its more fun to me, just my personal preference. maybe i haven't given grappling enough of a chance

I think I bashed my current school to an extent that is unfair. as far as Grandmaster Chung being temperamental, i think he just comes across that way because the man is tough as nails. tonight he made a teenager do 100 pushups because he wasn't punching properly. and if they charge me for various things, well they can't keep the school running for free. the one thing i can't get used to is mandatory belt testing, but i can figure out ways to deal with that. All of my instructors are AMAZING TKD artists ( i've seen them in action) and i've been told that in Korea the dojangs are WAY tougher, stricter, and more militant than the dojangs here... so that explains Grandmaster Chung's toughness, that and the fact that he taught martial arts in the military (not US military but other countries not sure which ones) but yeah it isn't a perfect school but it is a great school, the main reason i bashed it was because i was mad at Grandmaster for snapping at me for not holding my nunchucks properly. but i'm over it, went tonight, had a great time, almost puked twice lol but yeah... it has its problems but its as legit as any other TKD place in Atlanta that I am aware of

 

[IcemanSK]

I think I bashed my current school to an extent that is unfair. as far as Grandmaster Chung being temperamental, i think he just comes across that way because the man is tough as nails. tonight he made a teenager do 100 pushups because he wasn't punching properly. and if they charge me for various things, well they can't keep the school running for free. the one thing i can't get used to is mandatory belt testing, but i can figure out ways to deal with that. All of my instructors are AMAZING TKD artists ( i've seen them in action) and i've been told that in Korea the dojangs are WAY tougher, stricter, and more militant than the dojangs here... so that explains Grandmaster Chung's toughness, that and the fact that he taught martial arts in the military (not US military but other countries not sure which ones) but yeah it isn't a perfect school but it is a great school, the main reason i bashed it was because i was mad at Grandmaster for snapping at me for not holding my nunchucks properly. but i'm over it, went tonight, had a great time, almost puked twice lol but yeah... it has its problems but its as legit as any other TKD place in Atlanta that I am aware of

If you hold out to find the perfect school, you'll never find it. But I'm sure you know that already. It sounds as though a few days time & another class helped you gain a new appreciation for your GM & your dojang. Every master is different. Every night in the dojang is unique as well. We take off our shoes at the door as a symbol of leaving the day behind (and outside) and focusing on training. Most days we can all do that, and have a great class. Some days, students (and even masters & GMs) can't seem to leave our troubles at the door & it shows on the mat. Just keep showing up with your folded dobok under your arm and participate as fully as you can each class.