Where did the real Karate go?

[trueaspirer]

I couldnt agree more (with the original post). Its truly sad how theatrical karate has become.
-*sighs*-

 

[pstarr]

So...the question begs...what can we do to promote traditional martial arts and get John Q. Public ENTHUSIASTIC about learning them (as opposed to wushu gymnastics and all the rest).?

 

[Explorer]

So...the question begs...what can we do to promote traditional martial arts and get John Q. Public ENTHUSIASTIC about learning them (as opposed to wushu gymnastics and all the rest).?

I think it's word of mouth. I recently had a student who was going to leave the dojo because his schooling would conflict with our schedule and he must've visited 10 different schools in the area. He came back and told us how disappointed he was because ... "The only ones who seem to know anything about fighting are you guys." As it happens he can't afford the college he wanted so we get to keep him for a while longer. Think he'll be a walking testimonial?

After thinking for a minute... I hate to say it but I think it'll take a heavy PR campaign ... $10k or more to penetrate any given market. Press Releases, seminars, Community College classes, being the expert the news media goes to for answers to personal safety issues. We just did a story with a cable news channel about the issue of choking. Apparently, many women in the Twin Cities are deathly afraid of being choked! Every lttle bit helps. We've also just started a video podcast ... every week it's a new technique from a classical form or basic drills.

 

[pstarr]

It's clear that the gymnastic/hyena-shouting/electric pink uniform crowd gets a great deal of press and they manage to keep themselves in the public eye.

What else do you think we, as traditional martial arts practitioners, could do to garner the same kind of attention on a regular basis?...and get people excited about traditional training?

 

[Rook]

What else do you think we, as traditional martial arts practitioners, could do to garner the same kind of attention on a regular basis?...and get people excited about traditional training?

Well, there are vaguely two parts of martial arts - the cultural/philosophical/entertainment/showoff side and the fighting skills side.

I find it hard to see how many traditional schools will resist pulling apart. In the past (especially in the 60s) traditional schools made those seeking quasi-Oriental seeking individuals fight, and made fighters put up with quasi-Orientalism. Today, XMA and McDojos provide the quasi-Oriental culture without the hard work of fighting, and MMA provides fighting without the quasi-Oriental culture. Most people are covered from one of these two angles... its hard to see what your niche market will be.

 

[jasonearle]

Over the past several years I have seen real Karate replaced with acrobatics, loud screaming, (not to be confused with kiai) bad sportsmanship, arrogant instructors or coaches and deplorable conduct by parents.

The weapons forms have become extremely flashy. Real weapons have been replaced with garbage. The Bo Staff replaced with giant super light weight tooth picks. Chinese Swords replaced with flexible tin of some sort.

No matter how good you are with the weapon it’s the back flips and other non related theatrics that gets the win.
My concern is that people cannot separate showmanship from real defensive techniques. I have seen self defense demonstrations that would get you killed if you tried that crap on the streets. When entering into a self defense category of a tournament, the legitimate self defense will always lose to the theatrical stuff. Will we ever return to the real deal again?

"Bring n the barf bags."

I'm right there with ya bro! I'm fortunate to of learned karate in the real way you talked about. We don't try to do any of that flashy looking stuff and we use practical weapons more, like a staff, knives, escrima, and gun defenses. How often are you going to get in a fight were someone pulls out nunchaku or a 3 sectional staff? its cool to learn and looks cool in a tournament but doesn't seem to serve any practical application purposes outside that. We do sword stuff in black belt, simply because its way cool and very traditional and we like to honor tradition without being slaves to it. I've been to a few tournaments and had to refrain from laughter sometimes when I see some of the people doing forms that consist of nothing more than different flips or showy stuff, like throwing their spinning staff 10 ft. in the air. I think it was how constipated they looked when they screamed like they were being disembowled, that made me laugh the hardest. All that stuff is fine if you are in it for the competition and tournament side and I'm not going to say that everyone that does that can't fight but, I've seen the same people being flashy in the forms, really really suck when they get in to spar. It all depends on the individual and why you are in martial arts so I'm not going to try on diss on people like that, just an observation.

 

[twendkata71]

I will go a step further and say that I have seen karate people that spend so much time focusing on tournaments that they could not survive a real street situation. These XMA kids come to mind. Martial gymnastics would be a better term than Extreme Martial arts.

I'm right there with ya bro! I'm fortunate to of learned karate in the real way you talked about. We don't try to do any of that flashy looking stuff and we use practical weapons more, like a staff, knives, escrima, and gun defenses. How often are you going to get in a fight were someone pulls out nunchaku or a 3 sectional staff? its cool to learn and looks cool in a tournament but doesn't seem to serve any practical application purposes outside that. We do sword stuff in black belt, simply because its way cool and very traditional and we like to honor tradition without being slaves to it. I've been to a few tournaments and had to refrain from laughter sometimes when I see some of the people doing forms that consist of nothing more than different flips or showy stuff, like throwing their spinning staff 10 ft. in the air. I think it was how constipated they looked when they screamed like they were being disembowled, that made me laugh the hardest. All that stuff is fine if you are in it for the competition and tournament side and I'm not going to say that everyone that does that can't fight but, I've seen the same people being flashy in the forms, really really suck when they get in to spar. It all depends on the individual and why you are in martial arts so I'm not going to try on diss on people like that, just an observation.

 

[searcher]

So, when does the revolution start? I am ready for us to "make some noise."

 

[pstarr]

In my area (Omaha, NE) I'm planning to get as many of the traditional martial arts teachers - of all varieties of martial arts - together at a local coffee shop or small restaurant to brainstorm about what we can do to increase awareness of and enthusiasm for, traditional martial arts out here.

It's a place to start. We've got to work together.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

It's clear that the gymnastic/hyena-shouting/electric pink uniform crowd gets a great deal of press and they manage to keep themselves in the public eye.

What else do you think we, as traditional martial arts practitioners, could do to garner the same kind of attention on a regular basis?...and get people excited about traditional training?

Good question - I'd love to see a specific thread just on that subject.

I think that traditionalism will never have the attraction that the fast food MA stuff does. However; think of all the instant gratification folks you don't have to deal with as a result of the popularity of McDojo's!

 

[twendkata71]

That sounds like a great idea. Here in the Columbus area there are a
great deal of traditional martial arts schools and instructors.

In my area (Omaha, NE) I'm planning to get as many of the traditional martial arts teachers - of all varieties of martial arts - together at a local coffee shop or small restaurant to brainstorm about what we can do to increase awareness of and enthusiasm for, traditional martial arts out here.

It's a place to start. We've got to work together.

 

[kicksindabank]

I think we all have become slack in our martial arts. We are not will to place hard work because we don't get the reward instantly.

Our society is focuse on how to get the reward quickly without any discomfort. We are into instant total gradification.

Our goals should be to bring back a sense of hard work, dedication, and strong vaules in martial arts.

 

[twendkata71]

That sound correct. I think that we should strive to get back to a good work ethic and focus.

I think we all have become slack in our martial arts. We are not will to place hard work because we don't get the reward instantly.

Our society is focuse on how to get the reward quickly without any discomfort. We are into instant total gradification.

Our goals should be to bring back a sense of hard work, dedication, and strong vaules in martial arts.

 

[JasonASmith]

That sound correct. I think that we should strive to get back to a good work ethic and focus.

At the Dojo, Sensei and some of the senior students refer to this generation as the Playstation generation...Most would rather sit in front of the T.V. and play games than deal with the real world, and how hard you must work to get anywhere in it...I see what they are talking about during class...Sensei, and(especially) Sempai are always attempting to drill some kind of a work ethic into these kids, with varying degrees of success...Hopefully something will turn these kids around soon, because I don't want to see this Dojo sink into mediocrity, or worse, close completely...Sensei and the cadre of Yudansha have a lot to teach, and I've got a lot to learn...That' s a recipe for a winning situation, for me, and for everyone else as well.

 

[Sensei Paul Hart]

In my area (Omaha, NE) I'm planning to get as many of the traditional martial arts teachers - of all varieties of martial arts - together at a local coffee shop or small restaurant to brainstorm about what we can do to increase awareness of and enthusiasm for, traditional martial arts out here.

It's a place to start. We've got to work together.

This is a great idea, however most people have little desire to learn "Real Karate" when they can learn easy stuff and get the same recognition. I wont get started on Extreme Martial Arts, a new fad kinda like Wushu to the Chinese, just for show. There are real people out there. I learn more about my style everyday, and will continue to do this. When we stop learning, we are done, IMHO. PStarr, I hope your idea works. Let me know what happens.

On a side note, as I read through this thread I see that a lot of the people who have posted are banned/account closed. I wonder why this happens so often. I myself get tired of the M.A.B.S. and stop posting for a few months, then a post will get my attention and I will start again. Fact is, fake or real, what matters is what you can do when you step on the Dojo floor.

 

[Hand Sword]

As an answer to the question of the post, I would say, underground for the most part. For the sake of this argument, "fake Karate", has gotten so widespread that it has achieved "soccer mom" status,culturally speaking. Look at the commercials on tv, how parents speak openly about their child's study of the arts, the comical stuff that portrays the arts, etc.. Most dojo's are basically day care centers, and workout centers.

 

[Sensei Paul Hart]

I have decided to start a Frappr Map of people who desire to be thought of as Karateka, not sport Karate or anything like that, but Traditional Karate with the idea of Life Preservation at it's core. If that fits any of you please visit it and put up a tag. It is located at

http://www.frappr.com/karateamerica

I hope that people will be able to go to it to find a quality school and I will try to make sure no XMA or GymKarate styles get posted. If you happen to see a Dojo near you, go and visit and then let me know what you find, this way we can get a network of Traditional Dojo that want Old Karate Ways to endure.

 

[Hand Sword]

Good luck and good hunting all!

 

[twendkata71]

I thought about this subject for quite a while and I think that the " real karate" started to disapear when instructors decided to go completely commercial and make their living from karate teaching.
They had to modifiy their teaching to fit the general public. Couldn't keep too many students if they were exposed to the brutality of training for "real, old style karate". The training is extremely rough. I remember going home nightly with bruises, pain everywhere. I loved the training, but did not like the recovery. I think that the in general the public has gotten used to being pampered and do not like the thought of that type of training. Those of use that do appreciate that type of karate are few and far between.

 

[JasonASmith]

I thought about this subject for quite a while and I think that the " real karate" started to disapear when instructors decided to go completely commercial and make their living from karate teaching.
They had to modifiy their teaching to fit the general public. Couldn't keep too many students if they were exposed to the brutality of training for "real, old style karate". The training is extremely rough. I remember going home nightly with bruises, pain everywhere. I loved the training, but did not like the recovery. I think that the in general the public has gotten used to being pampered and do not like the thought of that type of training. Those of use that do appreciate that type of karate are few and far between.

I agree with you whole-heartedly...
Often times when I hear Sensei speak of the old days, I wonder if he would have any students at all if he decided to change back to the way it was when he was coming up...
Hopefully there would be a few, but I don't think that I would hold my breath too much...