When should you fight?

[Gerry Seymour]

If you play defense and not hitting back but your opponent still wants to attack you, it will give you a good reason to hurt him and you don't have to feel bad about it. You can always test your defense skill first and then test your offense skill afterward.

Is that what self-defense is about? You don't want to hurt your opponent unless your opponent deserves to be hurt

I'm not opposed to waiting out weak attacks for a brief moment, but even those must be terminated. A drunk guy who can barely stand can still fall into me and knock me down, hitting my head on the way down. That's no better for me than getting hit while standing. Mind you, it won't take much to take that drunk guy down, so I probably won't have to hurt him. The post I replied to talked about spending minutes defending, rather than ending the engagement. That's a poor choice, in my opinion.

EDIT: I don't draw a line between "defensive skill" and "offensive skill". Blocks and blending should flow directly into strikes, locks, and throws. Oh, and I don't test my skills on the street. That's what the dojo is for. Testing them on the street requires the arrogance of assumed functional invincibility, or simply not knowing (or caring) about the potential consequences.

 

[MAfreak]

testing on the streets also would be a street fight and not self defense.
in real self defense, i think, there is no time for testing around and one shouldn't take the risk. also self defense must not even be fighting.
avoiding an escalation, if possible, is also self defense and teached in reliable schools.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Charging into a situation without evaluation can be dangerous.

Not only dangerous, you may just help the wrong guy. When you see A beats up on B, may be because B just went to bed with A's wife and deserved to be beaten up by A.

 

[Transk53]

Not only dangerous, you may just help the wrong guy. When you see A beats up on B, may be because B just went to bed with A's wife and deserved to be beaten up by A.

Indeed. In my experience, domestics are one of the most difficult to gauge. As funny as this may sound to observers, one incident involved a female hitting on another male. It transpired that initial thoughts that the male that was wacked by her handbag, was in fact her boyf, rather than him hitting on her. He dumped her and left the club. While thinking that someone deserves it, that does not hold up in court. So as I said, black and white is a sticky wicket. In many cases when a doorman thinks a situation is a 100 percent clear, it is still 50/50. I made that mistake myself. Silent aggression is the worst. Why both parties get taken to the front door to be worked by the staff and police.

 

[Transk53]

testing on the streets also would be a street fight and not self defense.
in real self defense, i think, there is no time for testing around and one shouldn't take the risk. also self defense must not even be fighting.
avoiding an escalation, if possible, is also self defense and teached in reliable schools.

Street situations are so organic as it were, SD while very worthwhile, would be engage and retreat, or engage and restrain. If that is possible in that given situation. If someone presents a credible threat to life, it really is fight or flight, irrespective of the consequence of the action.

 

[Lameman]

My background is in streetfighting. While in my mispent youth, I met a professional streetfighter. He is one of the few fights I have lost, and so I asked him to teach me to fight. He hesitated for a minute then said, "Alright, I will teach you what I wish someone had taught me. If you can safely lose a fight, it is always better to lose then to win." In three years, training under him I learned more about not fighting, then fighting. In streetfighting, there are no escalations of violence. Its either kill or defend. On or off. In short, you fight when your opponant makes you afraid for your safety. And then you hospitalize or kill them. Average fight lasts about three seconds. Maybe I should say a little more. In real street situations, people rarely think about the next fight. A real streetfighter always considers the consequences. If someone is stupid enough to attack you, they are stupid enough to attack you with a gun. While in close quarters, fine. But next time? Trust me getting shot at is not fun. Remember, the best self defence is not putting yourself in a situation in the first place.

 

[mograph]

"... it is always better to lose than to win." In three years, training under him I learned more about not fighting, then fighting.

A real streetfighter always considers the consequences. If someone is stupid enough to attack you, they are stupid enough to attack you with a gun. While in close quarters, fine. But next time? Trust me getting shot at is not fun. Remember, the best self defence is not putting yourself in a situation in the first place.

Very wise. If you win, you can anger the opponent, who can come back with or without his friends, and do you serious harm when you least expect it. Consequences.
However, if you can lose safely, the opponent has saved face, feels powerful and will probably leave you alone. Is this right?

(BTW, I'm extrapolating my own experience diffusing conflict. I have no streetfighting experience.)

 

[LeftchopFTW]

I think if someone even looks at you the wrong way it is okay to give them a swift arm bar.

If they look at you negatively think about it.. Their thoughts are not pure and it is to me the same as hitting me.

I once put a pregnant lady in a Kimura for looking me up and down.

 

[Tez3]

Not only dangerous, you may just help the wrong guy. When you see A beats up on B, may be because B just went to bed with A's wife and deserved to be beaten up by A.

Deserves to be beaten up? wow, that's a strange place you are coming from, do you also believe the wife should be beaten? If your wife sleeps with someone else you leave her you don't go out committing a criminal offence. Of all the reasons NOT to fight this is near the top.

My background is in streetfighting. While in my mispent youth, I met a professional streetfighter. He is one of the few fights I have lost, and so I asked him to teach me to fight. He hesitated for a minute then said, "Alright, I will teach you what I wish someone had taught me. If you can safely lose a fight, it is always better to lose then to win." In three years, training under him I learned more about not fighting, then fighting. In streetfighting, there are no escalations of violence. Its either kill or defend. On or off. In short, you fight when your opponant makes you afraid for your safety. And then you hospitalize or kill them. Average fight lasts about three seconds. Maybe I should say a little more. In real street situations, people rarely think about the next fight. A real streetfighter always considers the consequences. If someone is stupid enough to attack you, they are stupid enough to attack you with a gun. While in close quarters, fine. But next time? Trust me getting shot at is not fun. Remember, the best self defence is not putting yourself in a situation in the first place.

What is a 'professional' streetfighter? A person who goes around assaulting others? Do you perhaps mean a bare knuckle or other type who actually takes arranged fights? Taking arranged fights has little to do with defending yourself when you are out for a quiet drink and get attacked. As for 'killing' your opponent in arranged fights, not, not really, in films perhaps but there's not much money to be made in dead fighters so it's not viable to have oppnents kill each other. Sounds very macho posted up though.

 

[Tez3]

I think if someone even looks at you the wrong way it is okay to give them a swift arm bar.

If they look at you negatively think about it.. Their thoughts are not pure and it is to me the same as hitting me.

I once put a pregnant lady in a Kimura for looking me up and down.

 

[Flatfish]

I think if someone even looks at you the wrong way it is okay to give them a swift arm bar.

If they look at you negatively think about it.. Their thoughts are not pure and it is to me the same as hitting me.

I once put a pregnant lady in a Kimura for looking me up and down.

Aren't you a peach?

 

[Lameman]

To answer your question. The less tactful way of putting it. He was a gang member. As a professional streetfighter, his job was to fight. That's what he did for a living. Not all of those fights were to the death. You don't have to kill your opponant to win a fight. But if you feel that you need to fight for your life, you need to take that stuff seriously. If you are screwing around, you can find yourself in a really dangerous situation, really quick. What is it? First survive, second defend yourself, third stop the fight, fourth resolve the conflict, and then, if you can, make friends. Remember, that a friend is a shield, while an enemy is a knife in the back. To Mograph, basically yeah.

 

[Tez3]

To answer your question. The less tactful way of putting it. He was a gang member. As a professional streetfighter, his job was to fight. That's what he did for a living. Not all of those fights were to the death. You don't have to kill your opponant to win a fight. But if you feel that you need to fight for your life, you need to take that stuff seriously. If you are screwing around, you can find yourself in a really dangerous situation, really quick. What is it? First survive, second defend yourself, third stop the fight, fourth resolve the conflict, and then, if you can, make friends. Remember, that a friend is a shield, while an enemy is a knife in the back. To Mograph, basically yeah.

Your guy wasn't a street fighter then he was a gang member, a thug in other words. There is an implied glamour given to the word 'street fighter' that doesn't reflect reality.

Incidentally in the UK 'screwing around' means having sex with quite a few people.

 

[Lameman]

Really? That's what you are going to get hung up on? To correct your ignorance, not all gang members are thugs. A gang member is someone who has made a bad choice, and found themselves in bad situation or vice versa. Also, my friend wasn't a leg breaker, or an enforcer. It was more conditional, if we knew a situation could go south, and you couldn't bring a gun, or reinforcments, he was there to make sure everyone came home alive. Gang members make bad choices, they find themselves in a lot of bad situations. Some of them have learned how to avoid and get out of, those bad situations. The beginning of wisdom, is learning to learn from the mistakes of others.

 

[Tez3]

Really? That's what you are going to get hung up on? To correct your ignorance, not all gang members are thugs. A gang member is someone who has made a bad choice, and found themselves in bad situation or vice versa. Also, my friend wasn't a leg breaker, or an enforcer. It was more conditional, if we knew a situation could go south, and you couldn't bring a gun, or reinforcments, he was there to make sure everyone came home alive. Gang members make bad choices, they find themselves in a lot of bad situations. Some of them have learned how to avoid and get out of, those bad situations. The beginning of wisdom, is learning to learn from the mistakes of others.

Yeah, right. Sing me a sad, sad song. I actually know more about gangs than you assume I do and you also don't know the reason I know about gangs.

 

[Paul_D]

when do YOU feel it is ok to put hands on someone else?

(note: the law might not agree but im asking from more a moral point)

Thank you

If I have attempted to resolve or avoid a physical outcome, and it has become clear that they are determined not to seek anything other than a physical solution.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Your guy wasn't a street fighter then he was a gang member, a thug in other words. There is an implied glamour given to the word 'street fighter' that doesn't reflect reality.

I don't know, being a 'street fighter' sounds pretty accurate to describe a gang member that 'fights people in the streets'. Only part I could have an issue with is professional, since that means he makes a living off of it, but if that was his job in the gang (which it sounds like ti was) it makes a decent amount of sense.

 

[drop bear]

I don't know, being a 'street fighter' sounds pretty accurate to describe a gang member that 'fights people in the streets'. Only part I could have an issue with is professional, since that means he makes a living off of it, but if that was his job in the gang (which it sounds like ti was) it makes a decent amount of sense.

Bikers have been known to throw some mmaers bouncers or footballers a few bucks to bash people they dont like.

Standover men.


Ironically in the 70,s they were tkd guys.

 

[Tez3]

I don't know, being a 'street fighter' sounds pretty accurate to describe a gang member that 'fights people in the streets'. Only part I could have an issue with is professional, since that means he makes a living off of it, but if that was his job in the gang (which it sounds like ti was) it makes a decent amount of sense.

It's the whole 'street fighter' nonsense which has been taken up by quite a lot of people who should better, it comes with certain connotations that glamorise 'the street'. Certain self defence instructors will advertise their training as making you 'street ready' and we've all seen those comments on social media where some cockwomble goes on about being 'a street fighter' or who has a mate who is a 'street fighter'. 'I'm 'ard me I'm a street fighter'. We have perfectly nice people posting up asking if some techniques would work on 'on the street' as if it were a ringing endorsement of that technique. Call a spade a spade, a gang member is just that a gang member, so he fights others that doesn't make him Jean-Claude Van Damme, that makes him a gang member who fights other gang members, and?

 

[Lameman]

In a way, I completly agree with Tez3. Maybe not as angry about it. Sure, I could teach you to fight, but my style has been around what, 30 years? Tested on a couple of dozen guys with varying levels of skill. Wing chun, karate, jiu jitsu, boxing, etc. Have been around forever, tested against god knows how many people. As soon as I hear, I'm training a style I created, I think, "What, you don't trust your training enough to get you through a fight? What makes your new style any better then everything you've been taught?" Not a critisizim of personal fighting style. But if you are going to teach a fighting style, teach something thats been properly tested. If you are good at that, then I will look at your personal style. As for what works on the street, anything. Takes about 5 minutes of training to beat the average wannabe hard***. Remember, hard is just another word for stupid.