When recreational drugs are legal...

Discussion in 'The Study' started by Bill Mattocks, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. zDom

    zDom Senior Master

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    It is no use discussing this with Bill.

    He is of the old school who swallowed the government propaganda regarding marijuana hook, line, sinker and may have even got some of the pole in there.

    The line of thinking is that because the gov't classified pot as a drug, any behavior associated with drugs automatically applies to marijuana.

    Pot = drug = bad. Period. There is no breaking those associations with those who lock onto that mindset.

    The facts are that it is easier to produce useable marijuana in your backyard than it is to brew beer, distill whiskey, make wine or even grow and cure tobacco leaves.

    It really is no more difficult to produce in your backyard than growing tomatoes. Plant, water, wait, pluck some and drop it on your kitchen counter.

    No test tubes, no magic formulas.

    Imagine the crazy things people would do for a nice, red tomato if the government could throw you in jail if they caught you growing them in your backyard.

    Yeah, Bill. Growing a pot plant next to our tomatoes and jalapenos would bring the apocalypse and turn all our daughters into slavering whores.

    It amazes me how otherwise rational, intelligent people turn to mindless regurgitators of ******** when it comes to marijuana.

    Ah well, I'll go home and pop a beer and maybe even do a shot since alcohol is legal and therefore good.

    Pot is illegal and illegal = bad, right Bill?

    Except so is oral sex in some states and ... bah.. nevermind.
     
  2. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well I like that better then the make it all legal who cares if a few faces get ate off. At least you can buy crack to help with the pain
     
  3. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Why stop at pot Cocaine comes from a plant so does Heroin. Meth is made from legal products you can already buy. Just because something it easy has nothing to do with legal or not. I can very easily walk next door and kill my neighbor no test tubes or magic formulas needed. Its a silly argument.
     
  4. zDom

    zDom Senior Master

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    My point is, if you could get coca plants to grow in your backyard, you are still a long way from cocaine. And meth is a manufactured chemical. Pot is simply a garden produce.

    It has been miscategorized by the government and for all the wrong reasons.
     
  5. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Actually a lot of non communist countries execute drug runners and dealers so I don't see what communism has to do with this.

    ZDom, marijuana is difficult if not impossible to grow here without the correct equipment, you need heat to grow the stuff and to grow it indoors. You have to have a lot of heat lamps and a lot of space. Often here we have people brought in by people traffickers often from China and Vietnam who are then imprisoned in houses just to look after the plants. It's often connected to organised crime so while the drug may be 'harmless', what goes with it isn't at all.

    Whether it should be made legal or not is the subject of intelligent discussion not the deriding of one person's post just because you don't agree, there's good reasons for making drug use illegal, I'm sure there's some good reasons why some drugs could be made legal but it needs to be thought over and researched carefully not just, apparently flippantly, calling people stupid because they believe it should be illegal, perhaps they may have seen or experienced things that give them good reasons to want recreational drugs to be illegal.
     
  6. zDom

    zDom Senior Master

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    And there are many reasons to stop at pot. Focus on cocaine, heroin, on the designer drugs that make people crazy like spice and bath salts — and meth.

    Redraw the line on who is criminal and who is just wanting to do some gardening as an alternative to Xanax and alcohol.
     
  7. pgsmith

    pgsmith Master of Arts

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    I believe that is an incorrect statement. I've never heard anyone express this belief, and I've been involved in many debates on whether drugs should be legalized. It has been my experience that the driving force behind legalizing drugs has nothing to do with addicts and crime, but rather with drug gangs and wealth. The current 'war on drugs', much like prohibition of the '20's, has resulted in very rich criminals. With large amounts of money for troops and weapons, and large amounts of money to be made, open warfare for control of the revenue has become the norm. The criminals in control live an amazing life of luxury, and many many people die horrible and grisly deaths every day because of it. The market is there. It shoudl be pretty obvious by now that the market for these htings is not going to go away.

    Your addict in the street is still going to be committing crimes, just the way your alcoholic in the street does. However, legalization would result in a lot more tax money to try and help that addict. It would also result in a lot of farm jobs for those who are now criminals. The number of criminals currently getting rich off of drug smuggling would drop tremendously once they were required to become businessmen rather than skirting around the law, just as it did when prohibition was repealed.

    There are a great many reasons to end the 'war on drugs' that Reagan started. Unfortunately, I don't expect it will ever happen because too many people are much more willing to do what they're told rather than think things through for themselves. Thus, we'll always have need of a nanny state to tell us what's good for us and what's bad.

    Just my opinion.
     
  8. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Funny thing is the fla zombie case he only had marijuana in his system not meth or bath salts.
    Plenty of criminal marijuana dealers sellers transporters user.
     
  9. Makalakumu

    Makalakumu Gonzo Karate Apocalypse

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    Might as well roll some weed up in the Constitution and smoke that.
     
  10. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I'm still waiting for you to tell me what rights were violating you came up with a weed detector. I have never purposely and knowingly violated anyone rights. I've lost a few cases after lawyers have spent months looking at every little thing I've done and found something I did wrong and that's why cases go to court. I've never seen anyone purposely violate someones rights either. So what civil rights do you see being violated?
     
  11. Makalakumu

    Makalakumu Gonzo Karate Apocalypse

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    I know. It's kind of a dig if you know what I mean.

    The idea that the government can control what you put in your body is communist. The whole idea of people who oppose communism supporting communism is worth pointing out.
     
  12. crushing

    crushing Grandmaster

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  13. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    A big generalisation there, there's plenty of governments who aren't communist who tell people what they should be doing, our Conservative governments have always done that, they think they know best. Religious governments also like to do that, as well as dictators. In fact just about all politicians like to think they know what good for the populace, better than the people know.
     
  14. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    I think we can discuss this and disagree without the personal shots. Bill's entitled to his opinion. I disagree with him however I will stand by his right to have it and present it. Goes for everyone here.

    So knock off the shots.

    The absence of the word "please" should indicate the lack of this being a request.

    Thank you.
     
  15. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Has nothing to do with what u put in your body I could careless if you want to destroy yourself. The problem is what your body does to others once you ingest the drug.
     
  16. celtic_crippler

    celtic_crippler Senior Master

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    When Drugs are Illegal.... complete with actual data and citations!!! Exerpts from "The War on Drugs: A Failed Social Policy" by Susan P. Robbins, PhD, LMSW-ACP
    Entire article here: http://www.susanrobbins.com/cv/warondrugs.html

    "Even though a vast amount of money has been spent to reduce drug use and keep illicit drugs out of this country, the war on drugs has done neither, despite claims to the contrary. In fact, the data indicate that the availability of illicit drugs has not only increased in the last two decades, but the drugs themselves are cheaper and purer than they were twenty years ago (Department of Health and Human Services, 1999; Lindesmith Center, 2000; National Institute of
    Drug Abuse, 1999; Office of National Drug Control Policy, 1999). In addition, there has been an increase in drug overdose deaths as well as an increase in
    emergency room drug episodes (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 1996).

    Not surprisingly, marijuana has consistently been the most commonly used illicit drug, accounting for at least four fifths of all current drug use, and with the
    majority of marijuana users using no other illicit drugs (National Institute of Drug Abuse, 1998. 1999, 2000). Earlier data such as these prompted Baum (1996,
    p. 126) to observe that: “Were marijuana legal, the country's problem with illegal drugs would shrink to the tiny number of heroin and cocaine users, obviating a federal drug enforcement budget the size of the DEA's.” Drug war rhetoric notwithstanding, the failure to significantly and consistently reduce either casual or steady drug use despite our ever-increasing expenditures led Sweet, a federal judge and former prosecutor, to conclude that “Our present prohibition policy has failed, flatly and without serious question” (Sweet in the National Review, 1996 p. 11).

    However, current drug policy funding ensures that those who are most in need of treatment are least likely to receive it, despite the fact that treatment upon
    request has been Federal law since 1988 (see the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1988). According to the Office of National Drug Control Policy (2000a), 57% of Americans who need drug treatment receive none. Although some have debated the efficacy of treatment (see Bender & Leone, 1998), an important study by the RAND Drug Policy Research Center found that each dollar invested in drug abuse treatment saves taxpayers more than $7 in societal costs (such as drug related emergency room visits and crime committed to support a drug habit).

    The abysmal failure in achieving the stated goals of reducing supply and demand is only part of the picture, however. The ever-escalating war on drugs
    has had a profoundly negative impact on society as a whole in a variety of ways. The prison population grew from 200,000 in 1970 to 1.7 million in 1997, with over 60 percent of federal prisoners being jailed for non-violent drug offenses, many of them first offenses. (Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1997). According to Friedman (1998) and Walker (1998), drug prohibition is the major source of the tremendous growth in our prison population.
    This has led to a disproportionate imprisonment of minorities, especially Black men, with one out of three either in prison or on some form of supervised release. Current drug policy has been racist in its effect, even if that was not its stated intent and the federal sentencing guidelines that impose differential penalties for crack and powder cocaine have been cited as “the most blatant aspect of bias in the system”(Austin, et al., 2001; Walker, 1998).

    Not only does drug prohibition lead to increased crime, but it leads to corruption in law enforcement, the criminal justice system, and interdiction efforts as well. McNamara (1996), points to grave instances of corruption in the police force, the Federal Bureau of Investigations, the Drug Enforcement Administration, and the Coast Guard. He points out that the violence and corruption stem from the competition for illegal profits rather than drug use itself and notes that “the drug war is as lethal as it is corrupting” (p. 9).

    Of major significance is the fact that drug prohibition compounds the harm to the individual user. Friedman (1998) notes that in addition to making drugs dangerously adulterated and more expensive than if they were legally produced, users are forced to associate with criminals to purchase drugs, they are at constant risk of infection from unclean needles (which is responsible for the unnecessary spread of disease), and many must admit to criminally using drugs in
    order to qualify for treatment.

    As the November Coalition notes, “In thirty years of 'The War On Drugs,' our government hasn't even managed to accomplish even a small reduction in drug dealing and abuse, yet we have spent almost a trillion dollars. ONE TRILLION DOLLARS!” In order to address the very real problems associated with drugs, especially that of acute and chronic drug abuse, we must refocus our efforts and seriously examine a wider and more rational choice of policy options if we are to achieve a more effective allocation of taxpayer dollars. Clearly, it is time to rethink drug policy."

    Ya think?!?!?!
     
  17. Makalakumu

    Makalakumu Gonzo Karate Apocalypse

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    It has everything to do with what I put in my body. Why couldn't we deal with the effects like we do with drunk driving, for example? Why do you feel the need to control others bodies?
     
  18. Makalakumu

    Makalakumu Gonzo Karate Apocalypse

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    I understand what you are saying, I made a tongue in cheek comment. In the end though, the label doesn't matter. The bottom line is that people who don't own our bodies are trying to control them.
     
  19. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't care what you put in your body. If you choose to drink gasoline and set yourself on fire, I'm fine with that.

    As long as your behavior does not put others at risk or is detrimental to society.

    Or, for that matter, behavior that we just do not like. So long as it does not infringe on your constitutional rights, society can ban anything it likes, just because it doesn't like it. Or make legal anything it likes, just because it does like it. Example there would be tobacco and alcohol. Society thinks they're swell, so they're legal (tobacco is kind of on the way out). Other drugs, society doesn't like.

    You don't agree with what society likes and dislikes. Join the crowd. I don't agree with a lot of what society likes and dislikes either. Too bad, get over it.
     
  20. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    That's a side-effect. No one cares about your body.123
     

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