whats the point of grappling arts?

Discussion in 'Grappling / Brazilian Ju Jitsu / Wrestling' started by senseiblackbelt, Jul 7, 2016.

  1. senseiblackbelt

    senseiblackbelt Green Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Location:
    Sydney
    like how does it help in a fight.. and how do u apply it in a self defense way if uk what im sayin' ^
     
  2. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    5,983
    Likes Received:
    914
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Honestly, I'm not sure if you know what you're asking there…

    Grappling refers to actions where at least one party has a grip or hold (which might involve pressure, or actually holding) on the other party. It can be standing, on the ground, or both… and is not restricted to arts such as BJJ. It covers actions such as clinching, throws, joint locks and immobilizations, pins, chokes, and so on. As far as how that could help in a fight, well, in any of the ways mentioned… if you get grabbed, or if you want to grab the opponent, if you want to throw them, choke them, or anything similar, then you're grappling with them… and when it comes to "how do you apply it in self defence", that's simply too broad a question to have any actual answer, as each situation is different.

    Oh, one last thing… part of the terms of service you agreed to when joining the site is to write in clear, legible English… it'd help people to understand you if you used full words, rather than "u" (you), and phrases, such as "you know", rather than "uk"… honestly, I had to look at that a few times to get what you meant…
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,228
    Likes Received:
    2,899
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    That's a really broad question, but the general answer is "to control your opponent's body and keep him from controlling yours." Depending on the art and the situation, that might mean throwing, tripping, shoving, or redirecting your opponent, breaking his posture, pinning a limb or his whole body, breaking a limb, or choking him unconscious - and preventing him from doing any of that to you.

    This is not necessarily separate from striking arts. Sometimes you might be breaking your opponent's posture, redirecting him, or pinning him so that you can strike him effectively without being struck back.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,853
    Likes Received:
    2,583
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Tony, you're actually just defining "grappling" in the first sentence, and I think that's exactly what the OP needed. I'm not sure what he's actually asking about, but the vague question seems to come from a different (or perhaps nonexistent) definition of "grappling".

    Senseiblackbelt, using that definition, your question now reads, "whats the point of controlling your opponent's body and keeping him from controlling yours? like how does it help in a fight.. and how do u apply it in a self defense way if uk what im sayin' "
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Guthrie

    Guthrie Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    If you are in a controlled environment, such as the ring or a training hall, for sport it Can be useful. In a real life scenario it has the possibility of be useful...if you are only facing one attacker. But, in my opinion, that is as far as Its usefulness goes. It is definitely a one on one system of self defense.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 5
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Kickboxer101

    Kickboxer101 Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    1,189
    Likes Received:
    311
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Do you actually train because all you do is ask about every single style
     
  7. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,228
    Likes Received:
    2,899
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    I don't know that I agree with that.

    Suppose you are attacked by multiple assailants and one grabs and holds you while the other pummels you. Wouldn't you like to be able to break free? That's grappling.

    Suppose you are tackled to the ground and one opponent pins you down while his buddies try to kick you in the head. Wouldn't you like to be able to escape the pin and get back to your feet? That's grappling.

    How about redirecting one attacker to collide with another? That's grappling.

    How about tripping an attacker who stands between you and the exit? That's grappling.

    Tactics are different in a multiple attacker scenario than in a one-on-one fight, but the fundamental skills are still applicable.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Guthrie

    Guthrie Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Sounds great in theory, but when you have three or four attackers coming at you continuously, not so much. Just about everything you describe seems to be a one at a time scenario. That's nit the reality of what actually happens. Although I would like to see a demonstration concerning those scenarios, if course minus the waiting your turn to attack.

    But, this question is about self defense...and in these types of situations, with more than one attacker jumping on you at the same, its just not a realistic defense.

    If you can break free and get up and run, which you should do when faced with multiple attackers, then yes it's useful.
    Your grappling examples are correct, but I am pretty sure the OP was speaking of being on the ground. And, a lot of what you used as examples are can be put into the categories of simple escape techniques.

    Which are taught in just about every system. But full on ground grappling...not really useful in a multiple attack scenario. Well, at least in my experience.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  9. Guthrie

    Guthrie Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I keep hitting the "I" instead of the "O" on my mobile..lol. My bad. Next time I will correct it before posting. Hell I am driving myself nuts with it.
     
  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Senior Master

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    4,392
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    The "stand up grappling" can be used to deal with multiple opponents. Instead of knocking down your opponents one after another, you can take them down one after another instead.



    If you are strong enough, you can pick up one opponent, throw him toward the others and finish the fight much quickly that way. :)



    If you are extremely strong, you can

    - pick up one guy,
    - hold on his ankle,
    - swing him like swinging a baseball bat, and
    - knock down your opponent one after another.

    Don't have clip for that yet. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
  11. Guthrie

    Guthrie Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Yes
    Yes, I do agree with the stand up aspect. Maybe it's a definition thing. What is being called grappling(stand up version), I call escape and take downs. If this is the definition, that the OP is suggesting, then it is very useful in self defense scenarios.

    And, should be practiced extensively, as should ground grappling, for escape purposes.

    But, staying on the ground and fighting multiple attackers, can get you hurt.
     
  12. Hanzou

    Hanzou Senior Master

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    4,046
    Likes Received:
    537
    Trophy Points:
    263

    Can you please provide examples of these "escape techniques"?

    I need a good laugh today.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,853
    Likes Received:
    2,583
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    The OP didn't refer specifically to ground-only grappling. If that was his intent, I'd disagree with you a lot less on your prior statement. However, even full-on ground grappling has a place in self-defense. Yes, a few escapes are taught in many styles, but I know instructors in some of those styles who have added BJJ groundwork to give their students a full range of escapes - two or three escapes will not fit a full range of ground situations.
     
  14. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,228
    Likes Received:
    2,899
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    I don't know what the OP intended with his question, but escapes and takedowns are absolutely part of grappling.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,853
    Likes Received:
    2,583
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    The ones I've experienced weren't bad. I even teach a bit of them to give my students a starting point for groundwork. Their biggest limitation was that they applied only to a small range of circumstances. As you well know, if you're really good at one truly excellent escape, you're still not prepared for a full range of circumstances. This holds true on the ground as much as it does for standing work. If I had the time, I'd teach more of what I know of groundwork. If I had more time, I'd study and learn more and offer separate classes for it - it would be a great complement to our standing work (both strikes and grappling).

    Mind you, we've both seen some pretty lame "escapes" taught by folks who know (apparently) even less than I do.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Guthrie

    Guthrie Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Our discussion is against multiple attackers. Maybe you missed that part. Have you ever found yourself on the ground( real life) with multiple attackers?
     
  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,853
    Likes Received:
    2,583
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Maybe you missed that multiple attackers is only part of the discussion, and not something from the OP. I'm also not certain how that has any relevance to my comment, since I never referred to either single or multiple attacker scenarios. The statement I made in my post holds true for either scenario.

    No, I haven't faced multiple attackers from the ground. Nor have I faced them standing. But I can find evidence of both with a simple YouTube search. What is your point?
     
  18. Guthrie

    Guthrie Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Multiple attackers is specifically what I was discussing, while being on the ground.. That's my point. As for the you tube vids..were they actual street confrontations or training hall vids against multiple attackers, while on the ground?

    I had already stated that if its stand up grappling it is very useful...so I am not sure what your point is.

    By the way..If you have a link to You tube videos showing an confrontations against multiple attackers, it would be appreciated.
     
  19. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    8,853
    Likes Received:
    2,583
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I haven't saved any links, but I can easily dig up some videos that include multiple attackers. I'll try to dig up a few tonight.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    13,754
    Likes Received:
    2,208
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Covington, WA
    Why not train grapplin
    I can't think of anything worse than being held on the ground by multiple bad guys without a clue as to how to get back up again. Seems pretty stupid to willfully choose not to learn such an essential skill if you plan on facing multiple attackers.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page

Search tags for this page

grappling arts forum