What weapon do you fence?

Discussion in 'The European Art of Fencing' started by kempodisciple, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Senior Master

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    Not sure how to post a poll, but to helpt his thread get going again, what weapon does everyone (if there is anyone :wah:) fence?
    I'm personally an epeeist.
     
  2. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    I have always liked the schalger, since it's the closest possible to an actual rapier.
     
  3. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    I fence rapier, epee, and shinai (if you count kendo :D).
     
  4. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    What do you use for a rapier? A real rapier, even unsharpened, is (I would say) unsafe for contact fencing without armor. And wearing armor would sort of defeat the purpose of rapier training, wouldn't it?
     
  5. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Master Black Belt

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    Longsword, messer, rapier.

    I would love to take up classical fencing, or even better, one of the older German sabre lineages.

    Best regards,

    -Mark
     
  6. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    Something along these lines with a 40" T03 rapier blade: http://www.zenwarriorarmory.com/catalog.php?item=252&catid=70&ret=catalog.php?category=70

    From what I understand, a schalger blade has a diamond cross section. I've never fenced schlager, so I don't know how they compare, but the blades we use are unsharpened but have a distinct "edge" and have a center ridge.

    The tips are blunted and use a washer reinforced a rubber tip. we wear regular fencing attire with the addition of a puncture proof hood (similar material to a fencing jacket) and a gorge.
     
  7. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    I've seen schlagers with both diamond and flattened oval cross sections. Both styes have a distinct edge. I think we're using different terms for the same blades. The rest of the gear also sounds very similar, if not virtually identical.
     
  8. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    Possible, though catalogs make a distinction between schlager and rapier blades, so there must be some technical difference, if only a stylistic one. On a practical level, they're probably the same or similar enough.
     
  9. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Among the historic "Classic" systems: Singlestick. Long for Heavy Saber and Short for Cutlass.

    Bowie Knife would also count to some.

    I've experimented a bit with 19th-early-20th C. Bayonet fencing but have not really given it the attention it deserves.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  10. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    If memory serves, singlestick was the only time a US Olympian took gold in fencing.
     
  11. BlazeLeeDragon

    BlazeLeeDragon Blue Belt

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    When I use to fence (I try to keep up on the basics) I used the foil primarily. However I also did some work with epa and rapier. I think I like the rapier the most as far as European fencing goes.
     
  12. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    The rapier (or schlager) is at least something that resembles a real weapon. Epee could be considered to resemble a smallsword, if you squint. Foil... blech. :(
     
  13. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    To Classicists, the Foil is the foundation of all fencing. In their pedagogy, you can't learn Epe or Sabre without first learning Foil. It may be boring but so is doing the first Kata over endlessly.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  14. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Sorry, but now I'm confused. Seems to me that the foil was invented in the mid-18th century. That's a long time after people like Agrippa taught fencing. So... classic fencing would be with the rapier (or something approximating it), not those modern toys called foils. :)
     
  15. BlazeLeeDragon

    BlazeLeeDragon Blue Belt

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    I don't know, I think the foil has it's place. I think it was a gentleman's weapon. A foil thrust through the heart, or neck would end a life quick enough, however at the sometime poking holes in someone with a foil required a certain about of fineness and the weapon it's self seems to be one which is easy to wound then others.

    Either way I rather enjoyed the sword played I learned with it.
     
  16. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    The foil was never a weapon.
     
  17. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    The modern foil descends from the training weapon used to learn the small sword and later the dueling sword (epee).

    The modern epee descends from the 19th century dueling sword, and doesn't look all that different, grip not withstanding. Because duels to the death were illegal, duels to first blood or first cut became common, so the whole of the body was an equally advantageous target. Presumably this is why the epee has large bell guard while the small sword made due with smaller shells.

    Sport techniques not withstanding, foil methodology is the foundation for eighteenth, nineteenth, early twentieth century civilian swordsmanship.
     
  18. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    Do you still fence at all?
     
  19. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    I need to amend this: Last year, men's epee and women's saber were not team events at the 2012 Olympics, with the world championships in Kiev essentially substituting for the Olympics for Epee. The US Men's team beat the French and did win gold. http://www.oregonlive.com/olympics/index.ssf/2012/05/fencing_us_mens_epee_team_scor.html
     
  20. BlazeLeeDragon

    BlazeLeeDragon Blue Belt

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    Was not aware of that, thank you
     

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