What to do after you have defended yourself

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok, lets get one thing clear. The police DO ( in the UK and I've no reason to doubt it's any different in the US) actually care about the truth. They will work long hours and go out of their way to make sure the correct person is charged for the crime. They aren't helped by numpties who hate the police and constantly run them down because they've had 'dealings' with them in their dim past and feel slighted ( mostly because they were caught doing something they shouldn't)

Note I said charged not prosecuted because in the UK the Crown Prosecution Service is responsible for prosecutions not the police. While there are mistakes made by the police ( show me anyone who never makes a mistake and I'll show you a liar) the police do their damndest to do a very difficult job to the best of their ability. Yes there are bad apples but they usually do get found out and busted.

Slagging the police off is a pointless and stupid thing to do...unless of course you can do the job better especially in the light of the shortage of manpower and the budget cuts.

Like all humans, their view can become biased by what they hear first, but all the cops I know and have known cared about the truth. Like all of us, they can be mistaken, but that's different from being deliberately biased.

 

[lklawson]

Don't worry, I'm not in a situation where I need a lawyer, nor am I in a situation where I've needed to use my martial arts for self defense. However, let's say that was the case. Someone attacked me, and as a result of defending myself their arm is broken.

Now, I don't want them to go to the ER and say they were mugged by some karate expert who broke their arm and tried to steal their wallet. However, I also don't want to call the police and say "yeah, I got in a fight and broke this dude's arm."

Personally, I don't have a lawyer. I haven't really needed one. So what do I do in this situation?

Honestly, go here:
Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network

They cover unarmed too as well as non-firearms weapons.

Spend the money on the lowest level membership. This will get you self defense protection for a year and you'll get a stack of DVD's of lectures which are more valuable than the cost of the 1-year membership. Watch the videos. They will answer these questions and a bunch more you didn't realize you should have asked.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Tez3]

Like all humans, their view can become biased by what they hear first, but all the cops I know and have known cared about the truth. Like all of us, they can be mistaken, but that's different from being deliberately biased.

Mm it's working. Actually I did say they can be mistaken because they are human. I wouldn't say biased towards the first thing they hear though because actually you tend not to initially believe anything anyone tells you until there's evidence. It's something you learn very quickly. Cynical, yes but at least not biased.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Mm it's working. Actually I did say they can be mistaken because they are human. I wouldn't say biased towards the first thing they hear though because actually you tend not to initially believe anything anyone tells you until there's evidence. It's something you learn very quickly. Cynical, yes but at least not biased.

Oh, they don't necessarily believe the first thing they hear - that's why I said "biased by" rather than "biased toward". I could have been clearer. Our minds form a picture (so to speak) of a situation as we get details. The first details going into that picture have no competition (except any pre-existing biases, but that's another topic), so color our perception until they are countered by something else (later input has to compete with that starting picture). If the person making the first statement gives good reason to be doubted, then the picture is likely to start by being contrary to what they say.

It's not a strong bias, but as with all subconscious processes, it's tough to entirely eliminate.

 

[lklawson]

In the U.S., the first person to call the police is often viewed as the victim. That's the way it has "always been." Bad guys do bad things then try to escape while the victim calls the cops. Of course, bad guys have figured this out and will now call the cops and claim victimhood.

In the U.S., if you ever have to defend yourself, be the first to call the cops. Even if "nothing really happened, I just punched the other guy a little to make him stop attacking me," call the cops first, before he does.

And the stake escalate if a weapon, such as knife or a club/cane, was involved.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[JowGaWolf]

Now, I don't want them to go to the ER and say they were mugged by some karate expert who broke their arm and tried to steal their wallet. However, I also don't want to call the police and say "yeah, I got in a fight and broke this dude's arm."

In the U.S., the guy that you just fought with, won't get into any legal trouble unless you want file charges. There's a non-emergency number that people can call with stuff like that.

It's one thing for the police to see 2 people fighting and something totally different for them to get information after the fact. A lot of spousal abuse happens simply because the woman calls the police but doesn't press charges, and as a result the husband beats her again for calling the police. It's a vicious cycle, because the woman just wants the beating to stop but doesn't want the husband to go to jail.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Dancing after a KO is a 15 yard penalty.

I think I'm mixing sports on that, though.

You can break out this dance at :23

 

[Tez3]

Oh, they don't necessarily believe the first thing they hear - that's why I said "biased by" rather than "biased toward". I could have been clearer. Our minds form a picture (so to speak) of a situation as we get details. The first details going into that picture have no competition (except any pre-existing biases, but that's another topic), so color our perception until they are countered by something else (later input has to compete with that starting picture). If the person making the first statement gives good reason to be doubted, then the picture is likely to start by being contrary to what they say.

It's not a strong bias, but as with all subconscious processes, it's tough to entirely eliminate.

However years of doing the job tends to get you into a different mindset, you learn from experience so while that while your explanation would cover younger and much less experienced police officers, the more experienced have learned differently. Yes the first to phone is usually the victim but that doesn't mean you believe them, not necessarily because they are lying but because they can be traumatised, confused, injured, scared and a whole range of other emotions ( had one who was sexually aroused and kept trying it on, he was elated from surviving an attack and that was the result though as he was a squaddie it was probably also his normal state anyway).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You can break out this dance at :23

Not if my wife's nearby. She'll lock me out of the house.

 

[CB Jones]

Nothing wrong with a little icky shuffle after coming out on top

 

[Anarax]

Problem is that most criminal defense attorneys will just advise you not to say anything without a lawyer present. Which is fine if you don't mind taking the chance of being arrested and having to pay for the legal fees to get out of jail.

One thing you should do is become familiar with your state laws on what you are allowed to do when it comes to self defense. Castle Doctrine, Stand your Ground Laws, is there a requirement to try and retreat, etc...

I was referring to the best counsel for legal advice would be a lawyer. A criminal defense attorney would be the most knowledgeable on what to say and how to conduct yourself when the police arrive. Not looking guilty in the situation in which you defended is what you should avoid. Using specific legal terms and conveying your story in a clear and concise manner will speak volumes to the police officers.

I agree being familiar with the law is the best thing you can do.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What to do after you have defended yourself

When your opponent's fist is flying toward your face, the legal issue should be the least thing that you ought to worry about. After you have defended yourself, you should pat on your back and be glad that you are still alive.

It's always be better that your opponent has to go to

- hospital,
- funeral home,

instead of you. Your life is more important than anything else.

 

[marques]

In that case, I ask 2 questions:
- Can I be identified? By the ‘bad guy’, police...
- Have I the law on my side?

If I am a random tourist and did something where I will never come back and no one knows me, surely no cameras..., probably I would just hope for no consequences, regardless the law.

If I did something on my home street (for instance) then I would need to prevent consequences from the ‘bad guy’ and tell a coherent story to the police... hopping I have the law on my side.

 

[CB Jones]

was referring to the best counsel for legal advice would be a lawyer. A criminal defense attorney would be the most knowledgeable on what to say and how to conduct yourself when the police arrive.

Ok just be careful it’s not one of the Bleed and Plead defense attorneys that make money by providing low quality service to their high quantity of clients.

Give an initial basic statement without going into details and advise you are willing to cooperate and give a full detailed statement with in the next couple days.

Initial statement should be something along the lines of:

I was walking to my car from my office when I bumped into the (attacker), he became angry, we exchanged words, and he pulled a knife. I was in fear for my life, drew my gun, and shot him in self defense. I then called 911.

The end.

 

[Tez3]

CCTV. In the UK it's likely that if you are attacked on the street you won't have to call the police, they will be coming anyway. Many businesses and householders also have their own, just about all pubs and clubs do and before anyone starts on about 'rights' bear in mind that people really want cctv and many people put up their own.

 

[jobo]

However years of doing the job tends to get you into a different mindset, you learn from experience so while that while your explanation would cover younger and much less experienced police officers, the more experienced have learned differently. Yes the first to phone is usually the victim but that doesn't mean you believe them, not necessarily because they are lying but because they can be traumatised, confused, injured, scared and a whole range of other emotions ( had one who was sexually aroused and kept trying it on, he was elated from surviving an attack and that was the result though as he was a squaddie it was probably also his normal state anyway).

What you say makes sense, but your missing a key point, that being, that it matters little in the long run who or what the police believe. What matters is the evidence they have and if that's enough to secure a conviction .

if your attacked by billy, a well known hoodlem and billy has a couple of mates that " saw you attack him AND intimidates any witness to he event . Then billy will almost certainly not be charged, no matte what the police believe.

you on the other hand, though an innocent victim who was just defending yourself, very well might buy. Charged and convicted basically d on the testimony of billys friends. Though the police believe your story, you are still in prison

 

[jobo]

CCTV. In the UK it's likely that if you are attacked on the street you won't have to call the police, they will be coming anyway. Many businesses and householders also have their own, just about all pubs and clubs do and before anyone starts on about 'rights' bear in mind that people really want cctv and many people put up their own.

no not if your attacked on " the street" very few streets have cctv, , some roads do, but if you are out of the town centre, at least round here, you would be very lucky to be attacked on telly.

 

[Headhunter]

no not if your attacked on " the street" very few streets have cctv, , some roads do, but if you are out of the town centre, at least round here, you would be very lucky to be attacked on telly.

Also CCTV quality is so bad all you'd see is some grey blobs moving around

 

[jobo]

Also CCTV quality is so bad all you'd see is some grey blobs moving around

i think that's very variable, but judging by the news, it seems that small shops have better CCTV than that the government installed to protect us, obviously our " safety didn't warrant better cameras. Or paying enough people to watch them, and of course millions of pounds worth of surveylance equipment can be defeated by a 10 quid hoodie and a baseball cap

 

[Tez3]

no not if your attacked on " the street" very few streets have cctv, , some roads do, but if you are out of the town centre, at least round here, you would be very lucky to be attacked on telly.

Also CCTV quality is so bad all you'd see is some grey blobs moving around

No and no.