What the hell is Enlightenment!?

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TieXiongJi

TieXiongJi

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I continued my research outside Martial Talk.

Definitions from Webster
noun
1. the act of enlightening.
2. the state of being enlightened: to live in spiritual enlightenment.
3. (usually initial capital letter) Buddhism, Hinduism. prajna.
4. the Enlightenment, a philosophical movement of the 18th century, characterized by belief in the power of human reason and by innovations in political, religious, and educational doctrine.

And Mirriam
1: the act or means of enlightening : the state of being enlightened
2: capitalized : a philosophical movement of the 18th century marked by a rejection of traditional social, religious, and political ideas and an emphasis on rationalism —used with the
3: Buddhism : a final blessed state marked by the absence of desire or suffering

Am I correct in saying 'enlightenment' is only a concept in a few spiritual teachings?
Otherwise, it is a synonym for learning and understanding. Yes/No?

Then I listened to these two dudes.

Leo Gura
Interesting ideas on how to lose 'the self'. Leads the viewer through some interesting exercises proving there are gaps in our senses and our imagination.
I do see his point about letting go of your identity to avoid viewing myself relative to myself since it is fallacious; circular logic justification.

A small note: I couldn't watch the video for more than a few minutes because the closeup is persistent for over an hour...

Eckhart Tolle
Good quotes from the vid:
The state cannot be a goal because it is already here in the present.
If you don't want enlightenment as much as a drowning man wants air, you aren't going to get it.
You are not becoming something that you are not now. You are already fully yourself.
Every human being is complete within.

Then this video.
Enlightened Beings Share Their Awakening, Mystical Experiences
Interviews with people describing their spiritual awakenings or enlightenment.
Very interesting in the varied descriptions. It
 

Gerry Seymour

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I guess we have had different experiences then.
Seems likely. I'm sure there are jerks among Catholics. I met a few, but the majority of those I knew were nice people, and actually among the more tolerant. They are also in the minority in this part of the US, so that might make a difference.
 

Xue Sheng

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Enlightenment is a wreath of pretty flowers that smell bad!

Wait...no.... that's logic...sorry for the confusion.

And sorry for the buffoonish interloper, but ever since I saw this post that has been stuck in my head and I just had to get it out..... please ignore my poor attempt at humor and carry on with your post
 

thanson02

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My issues with "Enlightenment" is that there is usually a bunch of cultural baggage that goes with it. I ran into this issue when studying Taoism. Lots of flowery language that doesn't tell you anything.

I have just settled on Enlightenment as taking the "us" we pretend or think we are supposed to be to be, chucking it, and come to a deep understanding of who we are, the good, bad, and ugly. Once we come to terms with that and accept it, we can start to know our strengths and our capabilities. We also realize that we are no different then anyone else and given different circumstances, we might have been just like the homeless guy down the street begging for money or the rich tycoon with the multimillion dollar business and coming to terms with that and being alright with it.

Note: Just because you become alright with this doesn't mean you are settling for less then you are to be. You are just not using someone else to determine your capabilities and value.

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk
 

Flying Crane

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Seems likely. I'm sure there are jerks among Catholics. I met a few, but the majority of those I knew were nice people, and actually among the more tolerant. They are also in the minority in this part of the US, so that might make a difference.
Well, having been brought up in a catholic family, my comments reflect my experiences. Oh, they can be the nicest and sweetest of people. But everyone else is wrong.
 

Tgace

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Well, having been brought up in a catholic family, my comments reflect my experiences. Oh, they can be the nicest and sweetest of people. But everyone else is wrong.

That's more YOUR experience than it is a Catholic experience IMO.
 

Flying Crane

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That's more YOUR experience than it is a Catholic experience IMO.
I can only speak from my experience, but it wasn't just in my area or just my family.

Of course every person is different so how different catholic lay persons will conduct themselves will vary. But official church position is pretty righteous, even when they are being courteous and nice to people.
 

Gerry Seymour

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I can only speak from my experience, but it wasn't just in my area or just my family.

Of course every person is different so how different catholic lay persons will conduct themselves will vary. But official church position is pretty righteous, even when they are being courteous and nice to people.
Oh, there's no doubt the Church is that way. Of course, that's common of all Christian denominations, at the Church level.
 

jks9199

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Folks, maybe we can back off of the discussion of the Catholic Church? Point's been made, there's a difference in personal experience... let's leave it at that and go back to the OP's topic.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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"Enlightenment"is something that can change you from a normal human being into someone better.

1. Normal human being - Inhale happiness, exhale sadness (you only care for yourself).
2. Better human being - Inhale happiness, exhale happiness (you care for yourself, you also care for others).
3. Much better human being - inhale sadness, exhale happiness (you don't mind to die for others).
 

Juany118

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What is the sound of one hand clapping?

In all seriousness Enlightenment actually depends on your ideology. If you are looking for the Buddhist idea of enlightenment you are looking to achieve a state where you can transcend the desire and pain of the physical world because our personal perception of the world is an illusion that blinds us to the real world. Truly accepting you can't control events around you is a big part of it.

While they don't use the term often, enlightened in Confucianism would be achieving a true acknowledgement of your place within the family and society and performing the duties of that position to the fullest.

In the Western context it is often associated with the cultivation of a rational mind to answer questions and find solutions to the problems that prevent or hinder the growth, happiness and freedom of society (not dissimilar to Confucianism.)

Those who follow Kabbalah may say this about Enlightenment

"Ben Zoma taught: Who is wise? The one who learns from everyone, as it says: ‘From all I have learned from, I grew wise’ (Psalms 119:99).

Who is strong? The one who controls his urges, as it says: ‘It is better to be patient than strong, and mastering one’s anger is better than conquering a city’ (Proverbs 16:32).

Who is rich? The one who is happy with his portion, as it says: ‘As you eat the work of your hands, happy are you and how good it is for you’ (Psalms 128:2). ‘Happy are you - in this world; ‘how good it is for you’ - in the world-to-come.

So what is it? It depends on the context in which you ask the question.
 
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TieXiongJi

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"Enlightenment"is something that can change you from a normal human being into someone better.

1. Normal human being - Inhale happiness, exhale sadness (you only care for yourself).
2. Better human being - Inhale happiness, exhale happiness (you care for yourself, you also care for others).
3. Much better human being - inhale sadness, exhale happiness (you don't mind to die for others).
Good Sentiment!
 
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TieXiongJi

TieXiongJi

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What is the sound of one hand clapping?

In all seriousness Enlightenment actually depends on your ideology. If you are looking for the Buddhist idea of enlightenment you are looking to achieve a state where you can transcend the desire and pain of the physical world because our personal perception of the world is an illusion that blinds us to the real world. Truly accepting you can't control events around you is a big part of it.

While they don't use the term often, enlightened in Confucianism would be achieving a true acknowledgement of your place within the family and society and performing the duties of that position to the fullest.

In the Western context it is often associated with the cultivation of a rational mind to answer questions and find solutions to the problems that prevent or hinder the growth, happiness and freedom of society (not dissimilar to Confucianism.)

Those who follow Kabbalah may say this about Enlightenment

"Ben Zoma taught: Who is wise? The one who learns from everyone, as it says: ‘From all I have learned from, I grew wise’ (Psalms 119:99).

Who is strong? The one who controls his urges, as it says: ‘It is better to be patient than strong, and mastering one’s anger is better than conquering a city’ (Proverbs 16:32).

Who is rich? The one who is happy with his portion, as it says: ‘As you eat the work of your hands, happy are you and how good it is for you’ (Psalms 128:2). ‘Happy are you - in this world; ‘how good it is for you’ - in the world-to-come.

So what is it? It depends on the context in which you ask the question.
Great answer! All true statements.
The term 'Enlightenment' is relative to the speaker. I completely agree.
 
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TieXiongJi

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Actually, I think that is the end of the conversation unless we go into detail on the different perspectives.

I will continue researching the 'Spiritual Awakening' and/or 'Pure Bliss' version and will post insights.

I welcome anyone willing to discuss their personal understanding of the concept, but the conversation needs to start with the personal meaning as there is no such thing as objective, as in same from all perspectives.
 

Chris Parker

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Hmm... I go away for a bit, and people try to take my place??? @hoshin1600 ... awesome. But the poetry? Yeah... not so much me...

Well, the title of the thread is "What is Enlightenment?"
After years of studying the world around me, I came to the conclusion:
Everything is 1, everything is trying to become a better 1, and everything will avoid 0 as that is the end.

What is your answer to the question?

The question of "what is enlightenment"? Cause, gotta say, the rest doesn't really mean anything... nor does much of your comments and research in this field... I'm not going to say what your comments are saying to me, but, yeah, that ain't it... at all.

So, what is enlightenment? Open your eyes.

And that's much harder than you may think...
 

Gerry Seymour

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Hmm... I go away for a bit, and people try to take my place??? @hoshin1600 ... awesome. But the poetry? Yeah... not so much me...



The question of "what is enlightenment"? Cause, gotta say, the rest doesn't really mean anything... nor does much of your comments and research in this field... I'm not going to say what your comments are saying to me, but, yeah, that ain't it... at all.

So, what is enlightenment? Open your eyes.

And that's much harder than you may think...
Welcome back, Chris. I was wondering when you'd show up on this one. I think your name was only uttered twice, though...:cool:
 

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