What Religion??

[dstuart]

This seems like a good place for my first post.

As for me, Born-again Christian.

I have to applaud the moderators of this site.

This kind of topic typically gets out of hand. :mp5:

Great Job!!!

 

[Lisa]

This seems like a good place for my first post.

As for me, Born-again Christian.

I have to applaud the moderators of this site.

This kind of topic typically gets out of hand. :mp5:

Great Job!!!

Welcome to MT, dstuart. Please feel free to go to the Meet & Greet section and introduce yourself. Happy Posting :wavey:

 

[mantis]

We are not denying that those verses existed. Those were revealed by Allah when Muhammad were facing the idolaters from his own home town of Makkah, and they waged war against him. So he had to defend himself. At least, that's what I know. I wasn't there personally, so I just have to rely on the History of the Prophet, written by Ibn Ishaq.



Well, according to Prof. Nurcholish Madjid, the condition is simply to not wage wars against Muslims.

verse 2:256 said that there are no compulsion in religion, so as long as non-Muslims doesn't wage wars against Muslims, then Muslims should not wage wars against them.

Off course, opinions may vary. I am from the liberal Muslims camp, www.islamlib.com

People like Ahmadinejad and Bin Laden have very different interpretations though, and their interpretations is more "Famous" than us, unfortunately.

That's why I said in my previous posting, that I perfectly understand if westerners regards Islam as a religion of war and hate. That's because so many Muslims committed actions which shows so much hatred and so much emphasis in war. I don't condone the actions of those so-called Muslims, and that's why people from the liberal Muslims camp are not welcome in certain Muslim circles

hello
sorry. i totally forgot i got involved in a discussion here!
anyway, im not denying the existence of those verses. but when you quote please put in the ENTIRE verse. sometimes in the Quran I noticed you do need to quote the verse before and after sometimes!
i am not "western", and I do not assume Islam is about hate and war, but it's not a good idea to deny those either. yes, there are a lot of war verses, and all i am saying is explain them rather than deny them.
could you identify what "liberal" muslim means?
thanks

 

[Kane]

Both Islam and Christianity have violent verses (yes Christianity too). There are a few verses in the Old Testament that tell that Christians must put homosexuals, adulterers, and even Non-Christians to death. Luckily there are no official Christian, otherwise it would be how it was in the middle ages or during puritan times at the most.

This is why Arabia and Iran have a lot more executions for homosexuals, adulterers, ect. Arabia, Iran, and a few other nations are officially muslim and follow books such as the Shariah without question. Muslim Jihad is similar Christian Crusade, and may not happen as often as it used too.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

The only problem with Faith is when SPECIFIC groups and individuals use it as a WEAPON to mistreat, oppress or kill "non-believers". Other than that, I agree with the late historian Will Durant that faith is necessary for a health civilization.

 

[jujutsu_indonesia]

hello
could you identify what "liberal" muslim means?
thanks

Hello,

everything you need to know is here

http://islamlib.com/en/aboutus.php

let me quote our vision and mission

About Liberal Islam Network

1. What's Liberal Islam?

Liberal Islam (LI) is a new interpretation form of the Islam religion with the insights:

a. The openness of ijtihad's gates in the entire aspects.


LI believes that ijtihad (the rational thinking of Islamic texts) is the main tenet that enables Islam to hold out through any seasons. Any locking of ijtihad gates, partially or even entirely, is a threat upon Islam itself. Since in this way, Islam would be rotten. LI believes that ijtihad could be held almost in every aspect, within ilahiyyat (theology), ubudiyyat (ritual), or (especially) muamalat (social interaction). ijtihad's space in ubudiyyat is exactly slighter than the other two aspects.

b. Emphasize on the ethical- religious spirit, not the literal meaning of the text.

Ijtihad that developed by LI is an endeavor of Islam's interpretation based on the ethical-religious spirit of the Qur'an and the Sunnah, not merely interpreting Islam based on the literal meaning of the text. The literal kind of interpretation would only "kill" Islam. Only by using the ethical-religious spirit based interpretation, Islam would live and grow creatively associated to the universal "humanistic civilization".

c. The relative, open, and plural truth.

LI based on the notion vis-à-vis "truth" (in religious interpretation) as a relative thing, since an interpretation is "human activity " which is shackled in a certain context; open, since each form of interpretation contain an erroneous possibility, instead of a correct one; plural, since each religious interpretation, in one and other way, is a reflection of any interpreter's need in an incessantly changes of time and places.

d. Stand behind the minorities and the oppressed.

LI stands behind Islamic interpretations that withstand on minorities, oppressed, and marginalized. Every social-political structure that preserves injustice practices upon the minorities is against the spirit of Islam. In this context, minority should be understood in the wider meaning, including the religious minority, ethnic, race, culture, politic, economic, sexual orientation, etc. Gender equality is a problem that we concern of, since our social structure is still based on the patriarchal idea which against the justice idea in Islam. We consider any religious interpretations that do not concern on the gender equality is inappropriate with the justice principle of Islam.

e. Freedom of belief and faith.

LI considers that the matter of "being religious" or "being not religious" is a personal rights that should be protected. LI does not abide any prosecution on the base of an opinion or belief.

f. The separation of ukhrawi (heavenly) vis-à-vis duniawi (worldly) authority, and the religious vis-à-vis political authority.

LI believes in the very nature of separation between religious power and political one. LI does not withstand any notion regarding the religious state whereas the authority of ulama (religious leader) or kiai (Javanese-Indonesian term of religious leader) is observed as the highest authorities that could not be wrong. The healthy form of state for the religious and political growth is a state where both authorities are separated. Religion is an inspirational source that could influence public policies, but religion is not the one and the only source that have transcendental privilege that could not be denied to determine all public policies form. Finally, religion works on private and individual spaces. Public affairs should be held trough "collective ijtihad" process, where everyone can debate, where every truth is determined inductively through the fit and proper test of vision.

2. Why named as Liberal Islam?

The name of "Liberal Islam" illustrate our fundamental principles; Islam which emphasizes on "private liberties" (according to Mu'tazilah's doctrine regarding "human liberties"), and "liberation" of socio-political structure from the unhealthy and oppressing domination. The "liberal" adjective has two meanings: "liberty" (being liberal) and "liberating". Please note that we do not believe in Islam as such---Islam without any adjective as some people argued. Islam is impossible without adjective, in fact Islam have been interpreted in so many different ways in accordance to the interpreter's need. We choose a genre of interpretation, and by this way, we selected an adjective for Islam, it is "liberal".


3. What is this Network's major mission?

Our missions are:
1. Develop the liberal Islamic interpretations that are appropriate to our principles, and disseminate it to as many people as possible.
2. Attempt to create dialogue rooms that are open and free from any pressures of conservatism. Only by the availability of open rooms for dialogues, the thought and Islamic action improvement could be well preserved.
3. Endeavor the formation of a fair and humanely social and political structure. We believe that the democratic system is a system that "in the very now" can accomplish those needs. In capitalism, we believe that there are some policies could be supported, and criticize some of its aspects as well.

BTW, for the record, I have no intention to convert anybody to Liberal Islam

Please direct further questions about Liberal Islam to the website

 

[tradrockrat]

"Is there a God? Who knows. Is there an Angy unicorn on the dark side of the moon?"

Edward Abbey

I am (I'm not making this up) a Reverend Minister in the Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic. We don't know, and we don't care.

 

[KenpoEMT]

Asatru or Nordisk sed.
http://www.asatru.org/

 

[Carol]

Sikh, which happens to be a faith with a deep martial tradition.

 

[bcbernam777]

Non-Christians to death.

?? must have missed that verse

 

[celtic_crippler]

Agnostic Idealist.

No offense, but prior to WWII the Christian Reformation was the bloodiest time ever in European history. That is a historical fact so feel free to investigate it for your self.

Faith is blind, however ideas have vision.

I believe it is the height of human arrogance to assign human traits to a supreme being. If you haven't seen it, I would recommend renting and watching a film called "What the Bleep do We Know?" Experts in this film giving commentary include Quantum Physicist and Theologist. I'll give you forewarning though, it'll make your head hurt. LOL.

 

[evenflow1121]

Well I guess I am a practicing atheist. No, I am agnostic as far as believing that some being, force, ect created all of this, but as far as an after life goes, I dont believe in one.

Why? Well, I was born into a Catholic home, all my siblings and my parents are Catholics, and I respect their views, and frankly I hope they are right. However, man since the beginning of time has been praying to supernatural forces to get things done, and while I can accept the fact that the screw ups in society are as a result of our own stupidity, I can not conceive how some being, force, ect. would be so arrogant as to give some of his most irresponsible creations the gift of freewill knowing how badly they would screw up (not just hurt themselves, but others around them), just to prove a point to a lesser being (angel or whatever) that defied him, doesnt sound too much like perfection there. Sounds like another Mt. Olympus story to me. Sorry guys, my rant is done, but since you wanted to know what religion I practice, I just try to help people out as best I can.

 

[Kacey]

Reform Judaism - although not very observant. I observe certain holidays, and Judaism has had a profound impact on my personal beliefs and philosophy, but has little impact on my day-to-day life.

 

[bluemtn]

I'm a born again Christian, to sum it up.

 

[Wes Tasker]

Buddhist (Theravada). I'm also an ardent student of Ken Wilber and other transpersonal writers, as well as some of the Perennialists.

-wes tasker

 

[stone_dragone]

I was raised in an Independent [not-so] Fundamental back-woods Bible-thumping bigotted Baptist church. Despite that fact, I still love Jesus.

Best description now?

Non-Demoninational Zen Christian.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

i believe the face of god is ever-present and shows itself to every person in its' own way. i'm not certain i believe in god as a sentient, higher power or as a synergy of human potential or even an abstract representation of what we, as individuals and a species, are capable of.

still thinkin', still listening, still learning.

 

[IcemanSK]

I am a Christian. I'm a seminary graduate & I've worked in different capacities in a few churches. My wife & I are involved in what's being called the Emergent Church. It looks at how to "do Church" in the post-modern world we live in. Smaller group, rather than Mega-Churches, worship that pulls from many Christian traditions, & asks the question , "Its great that you believe in Jesus, but what does it compel you to do with what you believe?"

 

[kamishinkan]

"Judaic Christian" Actually I am a Pastor of a local Church. I use this terminology because I am a born again Christian but believe contrary to most Christians that we are to obey the Law of God as given to Moses.

 

[qizmoduis]

I do not practice any religion, nor do I hold any religious dogma. Belief-wise, I'm an atheist.