What next after 15th Dan?

[Ella]

I think that I would sit in my room and laugh evily on a regular basis!

Don't you do that anyway? Don't you ever just think... "I know karate! MWAHAHA!" I do.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Bob - it must be awesome to have power like that....I think that I would sit in my room and laugh evily on a regular basis!

Some folks over the years have suggested such about me.

But I only do it on occasion now.

Seriously, we only ban in rare cases, usually involving multiple accounts, serious trolling and such.

 

[Doc_Jude]

No, but really...

All joking aside, now that we have a bunch of 15th dans, what's next? Is Hatsumi-sensei starting to issue Menkyo Kaiden to certain 15th dans? Besides that Shinken Gata thingee, of course...

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

No, but really...

All joking aside, now that we have a bunch of 15th dans, what's next? Is Hatsumi-sensei starting to issue Menkyo Kaiden to certain 15th dans? Besides that Shinken Gata thingee, of course...

I believe the answer to that is yes. I know I believe Peter King received Menkyo Kaiden in Amatsu Tatara and I have heard of other Shihan Japanese (most certainly true) but also foreign Shihan that I believe are starting to receive Menkyo Kaiden in different ryu. I am sure that Ben Cole will stop by and let us know if I am wrong.

 

[Hand Sword]

I guess it would be ....ah, just make the belt you're wearing whatever color the stripes are. there will be so many anyway, that the whole belt will be taken up by them.

 

[Bujingodai]

I think that Hatsumi Sensei is responsible for his own org and if he chooses to have 15th dan and above then there is a reason for it.
I am sure that he in order to continue the life of the school has placed some emphasis on what is beyond that rank IE Menkyo Kaiden.

Though the purpose of that style of promotion leads to another discussion which people don't want to have just yet.

Hatsumi knows what he is doing I am sure. trying to figure it out has always proved to be somewhat impossibile so better not to.

 

[Jdokan]

can I become a CenturianDan...please I'll be good....I'll even wash my obi EVERY day!!!

 

[LawDog]

The martial arts community of today is much bigger than it was just a few decades ago. During WW2 the military grew very large, because of this the military created the five star General rank.
If there exists a true span of control that can support the position then so be it.
At white belt I was the happiest. :ultracool

 

[zDom]

Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...

Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?

Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.

Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?

Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?

Marty DiBergi: I don't know.

Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?

Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.

Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.

Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?

Nigel Tufnel: [pause] These go to eleven.

 

[Carol]

I think that Hatsumi Sensei is responsible for his own org and if he chooses to have 15th dan and above then there is a reason for it.
I am sure that he in order to continue the life of the school has placed some emphasis on what is beyond that rank IE Menkyo Kaiden.

Agreed.

Though the purpose of that style of promotion leads to another discussion which people don't want to have just yet.

Are you referring to the topic of a successor? (If you are, then I agree...it is not time for that discussion.)

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Hatsumi as the Soke of the Bujinkan has the authority to do as he sees fit regarding ranking. This he does and the rest of us must just go along with the flow. It does not effect our training so why worry about it. :idunno:

 

[LawDog]

Very true Brian, why worry about it.

 

[stephen]

I guess it would be ....ah, just make the belt you're wearing whatever color the stripes are. there will be so many anyway, that the whole belt will be taken up by them.

In my experience I've found that a great number of members of the Bujinkan wear no rank-identification markers at all. Additionally, the ones that do ususally just wear the badge - which only narrows it down to 3 categories (for yudansha).

This seems to imply to me that not many people care all that much.

 

[Josh Oakley]

You are now a "True" Shihan .. your breakfast cereal refuses to come out of the box...

But seriously, what next? no other art has 15th dans .. there is nothing left to achieve in this mortal world

William K.S. Chow declared himself a 15 dan, but that was to make a point (plus, who could or would challenge the rank?)

 

[blood shadow]

10th dan has five levels to it then I think that's it.

 

[Mangudai]

Come to think about it there has always only been 4 belts.
1. Those who were not not a black belt
2. ShoDan-Yon Dan
3. Go-Dan and above
4. Hatsumi

Beyond that it's mere noise.

 

[orang_baik]

does 15th dan, makes u a God ?

 

[newtothe dark]

Depends on who you ask hehe

 

[MahaKaal]

Rank is just a number that shows you have knowledge of various techniques and forms. But that is not the pinnicle of martial arts, yes you have the knowledge but what matters is how you put it together. A syllabus in any martial arts school is the ingredients, the cooking is up to the student.

The limit to any art is how far you want to take it, your own expression, your own personality and emotion should be part and parcel of your skill. Most people feel that once you receive the rank there is nothing more to be learnt, but once you begin to appreciate the level of skill that old warriors would have on the battlefield, your skill seems like nothing.

These guys would enter the battlefield without fear, fight against hundreds of enemies, amidst rains of arrows, walls of lances, swords, horsemen, canons and muskets and still come out victorious, ready to fight numerous battles afterwards. What counts is the timing and anticipation of hundreds of mental calculations to avoid injury, dealing with the physcological issues of fighting for everything you stand for, your faith, your family, your children, your king, your master and your honour. Ego amongst old warriors meant nothing, they served a purpose and upholding their honour was more important then holding a high rank. Id rather have no rank and be able to jump into a formation and destroy every person standing there, then have a high rank and get slaughtered on the way to a battlefield.

Once you get to a high level of skill in any martial arts, there should be no desire left to chase anything apart from perfection in skill and complete syncronisation with time/death, which ultimately is unconquerable.

 

[mrhnau]

Rank is just a number that shows you have knowledge of various techniques and forms. But that is not the pinnicle of martial arts, yes you have the knowledge but what matters is how you put it together. A syllabus in any martial arts school is the ingredients, the cooking is up to the student.

While I've enjoyed my time in the Bujinkan, this has been one of my issues. There is no real structure like in other arts. No pre-defined syllabus. Reaching, lets say, shodan does not insure you know any given technique. There only well defined test is the godan test, at least that I'm aware of.

I think you have some givens, such as sanshin, and kihon happo, but beyond that, there is no universal structure. I think its pretty much up to the individual school. I don't terribly mind it, but it does cause some issues. Moving from school to school might prove difficult, and training between schools can cause problems...