what makes bad krav. (crap maga)

Discussion in 'Krav Maga' started by Runs With Fire, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. Malos1979

    Malos1979 Green Belt

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    Just a quick note, your instructor holds no rank in Krav Maga according to this page The Owners - Crusader Martial Arts
    He is a very accomplished TSD instructor thats for sure.

    Martin Pedata is a bit weird too, he can't be found in any of the bigger organisations, which you would've expected when someone is a founder of 2 systems.

    Look im not here to defame someone it's just little details.

    Another question, have you ever looked outside of your own school / organisation? Maybe this is chance to look outside your comfortzone....just a tip.
     
  2. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Master of Arts

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    i will answer this as best as possible. i will leave out specifics and links due to the TOS for MT. to start, i do a combatives system that grew out of my 35 year martial arts backround. as i followed my own path what i do now can no longer be called karate or something similar. the best word i found was combatives and by definition that it what it is. i never studied Krav but i do agree with a lot of what they do. i share a lot in common with them and to be honest, in many ways we would be competitors.
    i visited a local Cross Fit that just opened to see if they would have any interest in offering self defense classes. the owner replied we already have someone lined up. i asked who and what they were going to offer. they said it was MR. xxxxxxxx who teaches krav maga. in my mind i was dumbfounded and i think i gagged a little.
    you see Mr xxxxxx has owned a local karate school for quite some time in my area (which is about 30 miles from the cross fit location) it is a typical Mcdojo. they have a very poor reputation in the community and a google search revealed that all of his certifications are questionable. so he claims a black belt in karate that is issued by one of those business funding companies. the ones that collect the money for the school and do marketing for the dojo. as far as the Krav goes he says he is a certified instructor under Mr. ......... but i googled him and he is in Australia and offers instructor courses and i think online instructor courses. (not 100% sure of that but my memory seems to remember that)
    before this incident i had payed the karate school a visit. they used to be called something like Joe's supper dupper karate but they changed the name and now proclaim to be Krav, as if it is a whole new school. talking to the women at the front desk they teach krav to the adults and karate to the kids. i asked what kind of karate and was honest that i trained. she said a type of modified kenpo.

    so to the point.... if the prerequisite for being an instructor in Krav is a BB in an other style, the krav organization cannot validate whether that BB is valid or not. i think as a style krav can be great but i think they have some major organizational and systemic problems that are getting them a bad wrap.
     
  3. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    A hundred professional fights is a bit of an extreme number. Unless you grew up in Thailand or something.

    For example Connor McGregor could claim about 30.

    Conor "Notorious" McGregor MMA Stats, Pictures, News, Videos, Biography - Sherdog.com
     
  4. Runs With Fire

    Runs With Fire Purple Belt

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    That's kinda what I figured too.
     
  5. Runs With Fire

    Runs With Fire Purple Belt

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    Weird is ok.
     
  6. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    I checked out Martin Pedata's bio and it doesn't seem to actually claim that kind of record. It looks like he mostly competed in point karate (which would not usually be professional). It says he medaled twice at a North American Savate "World Championship" run by an organization which (so far as I can tell) only lasted for a couple of years. That appears to have been amateur as well.

    He may have fought professionally at some point, but I can't find any evidence of it and he doesn't publish claims to that effect online.

    (He also doesn't provide any info as to where he received any of his training, ranks, or certifications, including those for Krav Maga. I have no idea whether he would be a legitimate authority on that art.)
     
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  7. Malos1979

    Malos1979 Green Belt

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    I'm not sure it is.

    What I do noticed is that you were very negative in the past about KMWW and now you say that this guy Martin Pedeta actually comes from KMWW, were there is no record of him.
    Look I'm not a fan of the methods of KMWW, training related and marketing related, but what you are stating is a bit odd and double isnt it?

    Now in general, what you do find more and more are teachers that are incredible at what they do, but they try to get into that hype of modern systems like Krav Maga without having any official training, just for the money.
     
  8. Runs With Fire

    Runs With Fire Purple Belt

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    Oh, the joys of free market capitalism.
     
  9. Malos1979

    Malos1979 Green Belt

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    Then maybe, before asking on a forum, look in your own close environment first.

    And before calling others crap please check your own teachers background. There is something fishy going on about the origins of your Krav
     
  10. Runs With Fire

    Runs With Fire Purple Belt

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    I'll think about it.
     
  11. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    If three guys cant use their krav while armed with weapons to take one guy to the deck and beat on him.

    That is bad krav.

     
  12. Kababayan

    Kababayan Yellow Belt

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    Gosh darn it. I only check MT once a week or so and I miss great topics like this. David Kahn of IKMA says it much better than I can: Israeli Krav Maga - Cherry Hill. I think that's the right link.

    Here is my perspective to the topic of "Bad Krav". There is a major push in the Krav Maga world to keep "Krav Maga" from becoming a generic term like Karate or Kung Fu. Krav is very systematic (step-by-step.) Most true Krav Maga schools require students to say out the movements step-by-step so that they aren't leaving anything out. Every move has a purpose. I think a perfect example of Bad Krav would be anything that steers away from the systematic movements of Imi Lichtenfeld's Krav Maga system or his approved modifications. I'm not saying that any additions to Krav Maga are bad, I just am saying that too many additions can change the system and it stops being Krav Maga. It would be the same as adding a bunch of stickfighting, straightblasts, and trapping to Tae Kwon Do; there would become a point where it stops being TKD by definition. IKMA has added more groundfighting, but this was done with Imi Lichtenfeld's permission; the same with any additions by KMWW.

    Aside from the point of bad instructors (there are plenty of those) it needs to be pointed out that bad Krav is anything that is not "Krav Maga" by definition. Krav Maga is a relativity new system of self defense. All of its instructors have to be linked back to Imi Lichtenfeld or it simply isn't Krav Maga.

    There are two ways I would define the topic of "Bad Krav". One would be looking at what makes up "bad technique" of real Krav Maga, which is what I think Runs with Fire was intending, and the other would be what makes up a "bad version of the system of Krav." An example of "bad technique" would be not stepping offline and turning the shoulder away during a gun defense or not pinning the gun to the person's body before the disarm. An example of a "bad version of the system of Krav" is when I blend too many sidekicks in with my club defenses (which I am totally guilty of.) Sometimes my stuff becomes Krav-fu because I blend my martial arts training in with Krav Maga. When I do that I am practicing bad Krav. That doesn't mean it's not effective, that just means it's not Krav Maga.

    If you train with any of the following organizations, or have lineage back to them, you are getting good Krav technique. I may be leaving out some, so my apologies in advance:

    KMWW
    IKMF
    IKMA
    KWG
    KMA

    This is just off the top of my head. I know I'm leaving some out., so I'm sorry if I did. If you train at a Krav school that doesn't link back Imi's students, I'm not trying to put down what you are training. It may be very, very good, but you run the risk on not getting actual Krav Maga training.

    Just to add, if you are in Southern California and have a chance to train with Mike Mihalkanin (MMA Academy/Darren Levine lineage) or Dana Ben Kaplan (IKMF), they are both excellent Krav instructors. IKMA (David Kahn) has an instructor in Los Angeles (Alex O'Neil). I've never trained with him but IKMA is excellent.
     
  13. Kababayan

    Kababayan Yellow Belt

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    I had to share

     
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  14. wab25

    wab25 Yellow Belt

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    Are you saying that this guy is teaching bad technique?

     
  15. Kababayan

    Kababayan Yellow Belt

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    Eyal Yanilov knows way more about Krav Maga than I do (obviously). Ironically I was taught by an IKMF instructor (Eyal is the head of the IKMF) to pin the gun to the attacker's hip (pointing the barrel back), if you are close enough, for control and so that the bullet goes back into the attacker if the gun goes off. Sorry, buddy, I don't have an answer for you.
     
  16. Kababayan

    Kababayan Yellow Belt

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    I responded early before actually watching the video. I just figured that you were trying to support a counter argument, but after watching the video he does push the gun to the hip before the disarm. He even pushes the barrel into the attacker slightly. I didn't watch the video with sound so he may or may not be explaining that. When he does the disarm quickly he pushes the gun into the attacker. When it is done slower the attacker steps back, which brings the gun away from the hip. I'm sure that you were trying to make a counter-point, but I'm glad that I watched the video to see that I didn't screw up too badly. (Whew)
     
  17. wab25

    wab25 Yellow Belt

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    One of the things that shows me Crap Maga, is pinning the gun to the attackers hip. So you end up using your hand and arm against the other guys entire body. Most arts teach power generation through the hip.

    Anyway, the reason I bring this up is that it shows the quality control issues others raised in the thread. Mr Yanilov is an expert in Krav Maga, learned from the founder I believe, and is one of the top 3 guys in this system. However, I have never seen the local Krav guys teach that gun disarm anything like Mr Yanilov does. The local guys (that I have seen) teach to stay directly in front, use your left arm only to deflect the gun, then pin the gun to the attackers hip with your left arm locked out, punch him in the face and then strip the gun. I have a long list of issues with this technique. Yet, the head of one of the systems, a guy that trained with the founder, does not teach that technique. Mr Yanilov's technique, while different to what I have studied, actually addresses most if not all of my issues. But, Mr Yanilov's technique never gets taught, unless you learn from him.
     
  18. wab25

    wab25 Yellow Belt

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    At time 4 minutes... he shows and explains what he is doing. He is messing with the angle of the attackers wrist. He shows that if the attacker keeps his wrist straight, it won't work, you must bend his wrist. In his break down, he is never pinning the gun to the guys hip. If you listen to him explain, he is getting behind the weapon, and pushing the weapon down, to bend the wrist before stripping. He never said, and does not show pinning the gun to the guys hip.
     
  19. Malos1979

    Malos1979 Green Belt

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    Eyal WAS the head of IKMF now he has his own organisation called Krav Maga Global (KMG).

    My instructor was first IKMF (an Expert 4 under Eyal) and nowadays KMG.

    Krav Maga comes from alot of sources but the most realistic guy I have experienced is a guy called Branimir Tudjan from Holland, he has some really good trainingmethods.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017 at 5:51 AM
  20. Runs With Fire

    Runs With Fire Purple Belt

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    Bad technique to the point of being unnecessarily dangerous or ineffective is what I have a problem with. I've cross trained to the point that sometimes my krav is like a pot of chilli at a potluck. Can't quite tell what's in it, but it works. I'm not one to be stuck on stylistic stipulations. I'm not a complete Sloppy Joe martial artist though. But for the sake of krav, and as to not confuse new students, I try to check my completely contradictory tendencies at the door and put on my krav hat.
     

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