What is the best Martial Art for Street Fights?

[skribs]

Chewie for the win!

As for being around a bit...

A guy says "I forget how old I am."

An old woman with him says "I'll tell you how old you are, take of your clothes and bend over."

The man does.

The woman says "You're fifty nine."

The man says, "How can you tell?"

The woman says, "You told me yesterday."

3 old guys are sitting on a bench.
First one says, "sure is windy today."
Second says, "no, it's not, it's Thursday."
Third says, "me too, let's grab a beer!"

 

[Acronym]

Ok. So here is wrestling grip fighting and hand control.

Now there are mechanical reasons this works in that you are using your structure to support the arm control. This also breaks their structure and makes it more likely you will actually hand on to an arm.

Which is why he yells don't reach a lot. Because as soon as you do. You will basically loose the arm. And if you were trying to grab a knife hand you loose the arm and get shanked.

Now when we look at knife defense. It is performed generally in a manner that is too simple to work properly.

Grab moving knives out of thin air don't break their structure and don't really operate from where you are mechanically strong.

There is no amount of youtube clips that would convince me that grappling against a knife is a good idea.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

There is no amount of youtube clips that would convince me that grappling against a knife is a good idea.

Assuming you can't run or talk the person down, what do you think would be a better idea?

 

[Steve]

There is no amount of youtube clips that would convince me that grappling against a knife is a good idea.

Do you recommend punching the knife? I think you might be operating under a very limited definition of grappling.

 

[Acronym]

Assuming you can't run or talk the person down, what do you think would be a better idea?

If you know a kicking art, a well placed kick is your best bet. But it depends on how the knife man is conducting his attack. He will obviously not grab your leg when he's out to stab, and chances of timing and landing kicks on thugs is pretty good in general

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

If you know a kicking art, a well placed kick is your best bet. But it depends on how the knife man is conducting his attack. He will obviously not grab your leg when he's out to stab, and chances of timing and landing kicks on thugs is pretty good in general

I would argue that if you know a grappling art, grappling is your best bet, it's really about playing to your strengths. But next time you have a chance, have a sparring partner take a non-permanent marker and try to 'cut' you with it. See if they're able to slice up your leg before you get a good kick on them. I'd do it myself but my kicks suck so I wouldn't be a good person to test this.

 

[Acronym]

I would argue that if you know a grappling art, grappling is your best bet,

I'm paraphrasing now from a world class BJJ instructor in self defence.

"If a Jiujitsu practitioner uses Jiujitsu vs a knife, the Jiujitsu practioner dies (most likely)."

 

[Acronym]

But next time you have a chance, have a sparring partner take a non-permanent marker and try to 'cut' you with it. See if they're able to slice up your leg before you get a good kick on them. I'd do it myself but my kicks suck so I wouldn't be a good person to test this.

No point. You cannot recreate a life or death situation and the adrenalin rush that entails. Your analysis is quite naive.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I'm paraphrasing now from a world class BJJ instructor in self defence.

"If a Jiujitsu practitioner uses Jiujitsu vs a knife, the Jiujitsu practioner dies (most likely)."

That's a pretty standard appeal to authority. Doesn't mean much-I could find jiujitsu practitioners that say the opposite. In fact, my instructor's instructor says the opposite and he came in second place in the IBJFF world tournament a while back.

 

[Acronym]

With regards to unarmed street fighting, unlike ring fighting, I would put modern Western Boxing ahead of Muay Thai when it comes to the striking arts.

Boxing teaches you both close range and long range pugilism. In Muay Thai, close range fighting tends to lead to clinching/grappling, which you don't necessarily want in a street fight (especially not with people around you who will not wait turns to sucker punch you in the neck, kick you, etc).

One might argue that your hands are good enough from doing Muay Thai, which is a fair point, but the multiple range competency that you get from Boxing due to the rules, cannot be overlooked. Kickboxers aren't generally very comfortable at close range boxing, so I wouldn't recommend that either.

There are some downsides to Wester Boxing which include fully committed punches which might not be warranted in a bare knuckle setting. But it's possible to mark, rather than punch through a thug in a street fight.

 

[Acronym]

That's a pretty standard appeal to authority.

Which can be sound argumentation in the right context. Not all forms of appeal to authority are fallacies.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Which can be sound argumentation in the right context. Not all forms of appeal to authority are fallacies.

It submitted before I finished writing the post. Just finished it. Read above

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

No point. You cannot recreate a life or death situation and the adrenalin rush that entails. Your analysis is quite naive.

You could say that about any situation then. You can't train a life or death situation or adrenaline rush, you can just get as close as possible. By that logic, there's no point in training or testing any technique, since you're not testing in a life or death situation.

 

[Acronym]

In fact, my instructor's instructor says the opposite and he came in second place in the IBJFF world tournament a while back.

I'm sorry to hear that. Should be a no brainer.

 

[Acronym]

You could say that about any situation then. You can't train a life or death situation or adrenaline rush, you can just get as close as possible. By that logic, there's no point in training or testing any technique, since you're not testing in a life or death situation.

There are other situations involving an unarmed attacker where your reaction won't be that of life or death. In other words unpleasant but not emergency in which past training can make an impact.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

There are other situations involving an unarmed attacker where your reaction won't be that of life or death. In other words unpleasant but not emergency in which past training can make an impact.

Again, same is true of a knife attack. Just because someone pulls a knife out doesn't make it life or death-it doesn't even feel like it all the time. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

You're acting like a knife is this mystical thing that can't be tested, when it reality it can.

 

[Acronym]

It submitted before I finished writing the post. Just finished it. Read above

Our own Earl Weiss wrote an article about self defense vs a knife in the 80s, how bad the odds are even for a striker/kicker. So even someone who can touch a knife man without him touching him back is in a very bad place. That's saying something...

 

[Acronym]

Again, same is true of a knife attack. Just because someone pulls a knife out doesn't make it life or death-it doesn't even feel like it all the time. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't..

I've had a knife pulled on me close range to my throat and it felt like an out-of body experience. I talked my way out of it and the dude was just mentally disturbed and wanted to get a message across. Doesn't matter if I can fold him like a jojo (which I could). A knife pulled is a game changer to any normal person.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Our own Earl Weiss wrote an article about self defense vs a knife in the 80s, how bad the odds are even for a striker/kicker. So even someone who can touch a knife man without him touching him back is in a very bad place. That's saying something...

I'm not sure how that's related. I did not make any sort of argument that grappling or striking will put you in a good position for a knife fight. The argument is what's most likely to help. Which is why I recommended the marker drill for you to try out.

You can try it out. Then get a boxer to try it out. Then get a grappler to try it out. See who does best.

Or you can see if you can find stats for knife fights, and what was most effective for dealing with it, that would be the best solution but I'm not sure if those stats are out there. @drop bear tends to look into that kind of stuff-maybe he has an idea? Or @Tony Dismukes I feel like you might have done this with some people in your dojo/lab experiments.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I've had a knife pulled on me close range to my throat and it felt like an out-of body experience. I talked my way out of it and the dude was just mentally disturbed and wanted to get a message across. Doesn't matter if I can fold him like a jojo (which I could). A knife pulled is a game changer to any normal person.

That's one way to pull a knife. Having it against your throat definitely is (or at the very least feels) life or death. But I don't think kicking is your best option there. Someone can also pull a knife out telling you to stay away from them from a couple feet away, or to drop your money and leave. Or you hit someone (for whatever reason), and you see them going to pull a knife or gun. These are all very different scenarios, with different (martial or non-martial) solutions.

You're also free to add all of those to your testing as well if you like. If you have any desire to figure out what's actually most effective/safest, vs. just what your 'common sense' tells you.