What is really the difference between TMA and MMA? False Dichotomy...

[RTKDCMB]

Strictly speaking, training of any kind is not actual self defense.

True, but not what I was getting at. I was referring to the fact that not all of the techniques, strategies, stances etc can or should be used in sparring and are better off being used in various drills.

 

[Steve]

True, but not what I was getting at. I was referring to the fact that not all of the techniques, strategies, stances etc can or should be used in sparring and are better off being used in various drills.

Yeah. I know what you were getting at. I think it's specious, though. Sparring is bot self defense. Neither is competition. But kata, forms, one or two step drills or any other kind of training are no closer for exactly the same reasons.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Except for some reason, you can't find a video that supports your viewpoint.


And we both know that I can find multiple counter examples, yet you're unable to find a single counter example to what I posted.

That's the difference.

Yes, because we all know YouTube is the ultimate authority/truth and only credible source of unbiased, contextual information on everything!

 

[Hanzou]

Perhaps you fail to realize that sparring and self defence are not actually the same thing.

So you're saying that traditional martial artists only resemble their kata and one step drills during self-defense situations?

If so, why would a martial artist be unable to perform those techniques in a controlled environment, yet be perfectly capable of performing those techniques in an uncontrolled environment?

Yes, because we all know YouTube is the ultimate authority/truth and only credible source of unbiased, contextual information on everything!

I never made that argument.

I'm saying that in the modern age of the internet, mobile video recorders, camera phones, and social media, the idea that somehow no one has been able to properly document the true nature of hundreds of TMA styles is a pretty ridiculous notion.

 

[Dirty Dog]

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[drop bear]

Yes, because we all know YouTube is the ultimate authority/truth and only credible source of unbiased, contextual information on everything!

Depends what you are comparing it to. If some valid study was done the no. But if it is weighed against a personal opinion then yes.

What would you consider a more credible source?

And of course you are welcome to present it.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah. I know what you were getting at. I think it's specious, though. Sparring is bot self defense. Neither is competition. But kata, forms, one or two step drills or any other kind of training are no closer for exactly the same reasons.

Sparring has two issues one that they are fighting back and two they are as good as you are so the strategies and techniques are probably over engineered for what is neccesary in self defence. So where you may need 20 guard passes to defeat a guy who knows how to defend guard passes. You don't need that level of depth for someone who doesn't know any.

For example. Mma. In the UFC there have been I think two non choke submissions this year. Now this is not because sub's don't work. It is because people have trained to defend them. So now I have to train submissions for no other reason than to negate them from the equation.

 

[drop bear]

Probably because the RTKD instructor does not compete in competitions to have a fight record.



That is an argument for personal incredulity and a strawman, how efficient of you. I have never said that our intsructors are superior to anyone, only that they have been able to defend themselves in real situations on many occasions.

That is the reason behind personal incredulity because one is evidence based and the other is anecdotal. I am going to follow the evidence obviously.

 

[qianfeng]

U know u didn't have to find that one video where one guy (not from ng family martial arts) sucks and gets owned and looked at the better ones....

 

[RTKDCMB]

What would you consider a more credible source?

And of course you are welcome to present it.

What kind of source would satisfy you?

 

[RTKDCMB]

That is the reason behind personal incredulity because one is evidence based and the other is anecdotal. I am going to follow the evidence obviously.

It's called eyewitness accounts actually, but then if it's not on YouTube it didn't happen.YOU have never provided any evidence of your superior fighting style you think you have, nor any videos of YOU doing anything, only random YouTube videos of others and examples of martial arts for you to disparage.

 

[RTKDCMB]

While that didn't degenerate into crappy kickboxing, it definitely degenerated into crappy slap-fu.

Yet it was still better than the Muay Thai.

 

[Hanzou]

U know u didn't have to find that one video where one guy (not from ng family martial arts) sucks and gets owned and looked at the better ones....

Was there another video showing free sparring that I missed?

 

[Hanzou]

Yet it was still better than the Muay Thai.

Well to the boxer's credit, his low kick looked very crisp. Unfortunately everything else looked like poop.

More to the point; We know that boxers look crisp and very clean when they fight. We also know that they're incredibly dangerous strikers. There's countless videos and examples that show this, and numerous martial art schools focus on defenses against these fighters.

I'd like to see some examples of crisp, technique-rich Karate or Kung Fu in a sparring or competition environment. As of right now, I'm left wondering why their forms and demonstrations look one way, yet their fighting looks completely different (and in some cases far worse).

 

[drop bear]

What kind of source would satisfy you?

I am easy.Something that is not anecdotal. Which I know is hard and why I tend to use YouTube.

 

[drop bear]

It's called eyewitness accounts actually, but then if it's not on YouTube it didn't happen.YOU have never provided any evidence of your superior fighting style you think you have, nor any videos of YOU doing anything, only random YouTube videos of others and examples of martial arts for you to disparage.

I don't think I have made any sort of claim that I am awsome. I have actively tried to make it not about me.

An eyewitness account would have to be varafiable so for example up here we have a guy Paul Cale who does street. The difference being he has varafiable experience.

http://www.news.com.au/national/dig...aliban-commander/story-fncynjr2-1226593075852

Interestingly he heads up Kudo. Which I would put as neo traditional. A new martial art with traditional trappings.

 

[qianfeng]

Was there another video showing free sparring that I missed?

There is sparring in the training vids and the kung fu quest behind the scenes one

 

[RTKDCMB]

More to the point; We know that boxers look crisp and very clean when they fight.

I'd like to see some examples of crisp, technique-rich Karate or Kung Fu in a sparring or competition environment.

I have seen many MMA and Kickboxing fights were the fighting was sloppy and unfocussed.

 

[Hanzou]

There is sparring in the training vids and the kung fu quest behind the scenes one

I suppose you would prefer me referencing this clip?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syxf4EEAIGE&list=UUHKRCZotjbF9l_XWVsNoj_Q

Fantastic unarmed and weapons forms. I do enjoy seeing traditional martial forms performed by people who know what they're doing.

However then the sparring began. Despite the exotic techniques displayed in the forms, and the drills, the students and instructors fight like western boxers. Why learn all of those exotic movements if when I actually fight, I'm going to be using the 4 punches that boxers use? Why not simply train boxing if that's the case?

BTW, I'm not the only person who noticed it. From the comments;

[h=3]ozhunga[/h]7 months ago

I love your ethics and training but why do you western box when you train Choy lay fut it seems so many styles of kungfuqld have such good training Jongs etc but always end up jabbing each other.
Appreciate your time and efforts for uploading your training.

It goes back to the very point of this thread; Traditional Martial Arts train techniques not for fighting or combat effectiveness, but for preservation purposes.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I don't think I have made any sort of claim that I am awsome. I have actively tried to make it not about me.

An eyewitness account would have to be varafiable so for example up here we have a guy Paul Cale who does street. The difference being he has varafiable experience.

Diggers defend killer Commando Sergeant Paul Cale | News.com.au

Interestingly he heads up Kudo. Which I would put as neo traditional. A new martial art with traditional trappings.

There are many traditional martial artists that have military records. Master Rhee was the lead instructor for the Korean 'Demon Hunter' Marines, who have verifiable military experience.