What is Noto?

[masterloki]

I was reading on another martial arts forum, and they kept mentioning Noto... I have no idea what that means... any suggestions? Also could someone tell me where I can learn Iaido, or Kendo around Dallas? Or perhaps Ninpo Bujinkhan?

 

[Carol]

Noto is what happens when you drop your sword on your foot. No toe!!

(Just kidding)

Iaido is an art based around drawing and sheathing of the sword. The three basic movements are...

Batto - the drawing of the sword from it's sheath

Chiburi - the motion(s) taken to remove the blood from the sword. (It's highly disrepectful to resheath a sword with enemy blood still on it)

Noto - the sheathing of the sword.

 

[masterloki]

so, Noto is the resheathing of the katana? then how is it so dangerous when done improperly? I saw some pretty gruesome pictures of the mistakes that people have made doing it

 

[Carol]

Because a katana is long, thin, and sharp, and the sheath is held close to your body. You get very little sensory feedback from resheathing a katana.

If the blade is too far to the inside, the blade risks piercing the Iaidoka's trunk or upper thigh....which risks esposure to organs and many key blood vessels.

If the blade is off center, and the Iadoka's complimentary hand is resting upon the sheath, the blade risks slicing the Iaidoka's hand or arm.

Drawing and resheathing the blade is not as simple as it looks.

There is also the risk of using live steel before the student is trained enough to effectively handle a sharp edge. Moves gone wrong, blades that have been dropped...

Students that start out in Iaido or Kendo train with a bokken or an iaito (training blade) before training with live steel. Good habits must be learned first before risking one's flesh

 

[masterloki]

so, just resheathing the sword is that dangerous? I would expect that someone would be very careful with a blade that sharp, unless the person were very foolish by nature. I have a few "Wallhanger" katanas, and I'm looking to buy a good bokken... any ideas where to look? or if there is a specific wood, I can carve it for myself out of? I don't have any illsions of being a master sword-smith, or anything like that, but I am pretty good at carving wood... also... should I buy a real katana for a dojo (after asking the sensei about what specifications are needed) should I buy the wakazashi, and Tanto as well? and do I need to be looking for Lamellar armor? (that last one's a little goofy, but I'd rather ask it, and look stupid online than not have what I need for training. Also... would my prior training in Go-Ju-Kai help me at all with Iaido?

 

[Carol]

so, just resheathing the sword is that dangerous? I would expect that someone would be very careful with a blade that sharp, unless the person were very foolish by nature. I have a few "Wallhanger" katanas, and I'm looking to buy a good bokken... any ideas where to look? or if there is a specific wood, I can carve it for myself out of? I don't have any illsions of being a master sword-smith, or anything like that, but I am pretty good at carving wood... also... should I buy a real katana for a dojo (after asking the sensei about what specifications are needed) should I buy the wakazashi, and Tanto as well? and do I need to be looking for Lamellar armor? (that last one's a little goofy, but I'd rather ask it, and look stupid online than not have what I need for training. Also... would my prior training in Go-Ju-Kai help me at all with Iaido?

Actually, resheathing the sword is the most dangerous move in Iaido (to yourself) because you are bringing the sharp edge in to your body.

When you are drawing the sword you are moving the blade away from your body. When you go through your cuts, blocks, and chibari, the blade is at a distance from your body. Resheathing is the only time that you bring the edge back towards you in a way that's close enough for the blade to contact your vital organs.

One expects to be careful, but the difference between success and a horrible mistake is a fraction of an inch. The katana is also a very long blade. To resheath it, one must have the handle extended at an angle that feels a bit awkward. Mistakes can happen because sheathing the sword properly and bringing the sword just inside the sheath in towards one's body can feel like the same move.

One's body size also plays a role, esp. in the beginning. A smaller person with smaller arms may have a more difficult time obtaining proper leverage than a larger person.

As far as a bokken, it's absolutely possible to make one. Katanas are not heavy swords, some weigh less than a kilogram. A beginner student is likely best served by a bokken that was similar in weight. I'm guessing good woods for that would be the lighter hardwoods such as maple, alder, or ash. The martial arts suppliers that advertise here such as centurymartialarts.com and karatedepot.com likely all sell bokkens as well.

As you advance, you may want to have bokkens of different sizes and weights. Many Iaidoka also have heavier bokkens of oak, ironwood, etc. as a way of strengthening the arms.

I wouldn't recommend buying a real katana yet. You actually don't need anything at all to begin training, because your induction in to your training with Sensei will involve going over what you need to buy, what you need to wear, and how to wear it. Your wazakashi and tanto will be pointed out to you then, and you will likely be given recommendations for what sword to buy.

I would hold off on buying a quality katana. Your first sword should be an iaito, and sensei can assist you with purchasing one. On a different note, a quality katana can be upwards of $1,000...there is a tremendous benefit in learning more about the art and the swords so when the time comese to make an investment, you know more about what swords you personally prefer.

I don't know very much about Goju Kai personally. From what I do know, it is a classical style of Japanese karate and generally very disciplined. That will definitely help with Iaido. Also the mental training necessary to learn by watching (somehing I'm terrible at) and learning from kata will be very valuable.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Masterloki here are some Bujinkan schools in Texas.

Texas
[FONT=verdana,arial]Austin Bujinkan Tanemaki Dojo
Austin & San Marcos Dojos
Bujinkan Bellaire Dojo[/FONT]
Bujinkan Chosui Dojo [FONT=verdana,arial]
Bujinkan Honshin Dojo
Bujinkan Jigoku Dojo, Dallas[/FONT]
Bujinkan Sagurishin Dojo
Harlingen Bujinkan Shibu [FONT=verdana,arial]
[/FONT]Mizukagami Dôjô, Austin
Jigoku Dojo [FONT=verdana,arial]
Bujinkan Richmond Dojo
Liberty Hill Bujinkan Dôjô
Round Rock Bujinkan[/FONT]
San Antonio Bujinkan Dojo
Spirit Warriors Dojos
Texas Bujinkan Dojo
Woodlands Bujinkan Dojo

Good luck!

 

[Charles Mahan]

Also could someone tell me where I can learn Iaido, or Kendo around Dallas?

There is Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaido available in Denton under John Ray (Nanadan Kyoshi). This is the group I study with. We are members of the MJER Seitokai association under Ikeda Takashi Soke. You can learn more about our dojo at http://www.dentondojo.com You are welcome to drop by and watch class at any of the regularly scheduled classes. There is class tomorrow, but there is not class on the next two Mondays for obvious reasons. The schedule and directions are at the website.

There is Kendo available in the Addison and Grapevine areas. I don't have a link for the Grapevine group but you can find the other group at http://www.dfwkik.org

There is also some Sekiguchi Ryu in the Plano area under Paul Smith. They're associated with Carl McClafferty-sensei out in Arizona, who is associated with the soke of the style. I don't know the details, but Paul posts from time to time. I'm sure he'll jump on.


As for noto, it can be very dangerous for the untrained. Particularly when they try to mimic something they have seen in a book or on a video. That's what happened to the guy who ran his arm through. He tried something that was particularly tricky with a live blade at full speed. Nearly died for his troubles and maimed his left arm. People who have studied that style for awhile and learned to do it properly, have little difficulty doing it safely. It's all about proper training. Start slow and easy and work your way up. Without someone looking over your shoulder to tell you what you are doing wrong, it's only a matter of time until something very bad happens.

Typically new students will start out with wooden practice swords, and within a month or so work up to unsharpened metal swords called Iaito. At the dojo I train at it'll be anywhere from 5 to 10 years before you start training with a live blade, depending on how hard you train, what your natural level of ability is, and how long it takes you to save up the money. By the time you are allowed to use a live blade, you should be relatively safe to do so.

Funny you should mention the Goju karate style. Ray-sensei trained in Uechi Ryu for years before taking up MJER back around 1980. He says that there are some levels of similarity, but don't expect the stances, distance, timing, or other details to be very similar to what you've been taught before. It's a whole different ballgame.

 

[pgsmith]

Masterloki,
Good decision!
Brian has made a good listing for Texas. The only one in the Dallas area that I know (and so can recommend) is Luke Molitor at the Jigoku dojo ... http://www.jigokudojo.com/ If you wish to learn the arts of the Bujinkan, Mr. Molitor is an excellent choice. Very knowledgeable, excellent swordsman, and a really good guy.

For kendo in the area, there is the DFWKIK in Addison ... http://www.dfwkik.org/2004/index.html Also, Charles Riddle teaches a kendo and iaido basics class through the Grapevine parks and rec. dept. ... http://www.ci.grapevine.tx.us Look under Parks and Rec. for details.

John Ray up in Denton is the best choice for iaido ... http://dentondojo.com/ He is very experienced, very good, and a great guy besides.

For other Japanese sword arts in the area, Bob Lange teaches Tenshin ryu out in Mesquite ... http://www.nikkodojo.net/index.htm and I teach Kobu Shin ryu and Sekiguchi ryu in Plano ...

Ha, Charles jumped in before I got this posted!

 

[Cryozombie]

so, Noto is the resheathing of the katana? then how is it so dangerous when done improperly? I saw some pretty gruesome pictures of the mistakes that people have made doing it

I have had training, and even going slowly and carefully I have sliced my thumb resheathing after doing a cut a couple times... without actually telling you how its done (so you dont try it at home, Kids) it has to do with not looking at the sword when you are doing the resheathing, and instead drawing the blade (the spine of the blade) along the throat of the Saya and guiding it in with your thumb to do the resheathing... So people doing it fast, who screw up the technique open themselves up but good.

 

[masterloki]

I have a book called Iai The Art of Drawing the Sword (by Darrel Craig) is this a good resource... it seems very informative, and true to what I know of the spirit of the japanese sword, but again... I'm a noob

 

[Ninjamom]

Paul has given some great indisght into what's available (as far as instruction) in your area. He's a good, knowledgeable guy.

To help with decyphering all the 'sword-speak', here's a link to one of my favorite Japanese Sword terminology wepsites.

 

[masterloki]

I probably ought to say that I have no intention of trying to learn Iaido from this book... just learn as much as I can about it before going into anything half-cocked

 

[pgsmith]

probably ought to say that I have no intention of trying to learn Iaido from this book...

Good!

... just learn as much as I can about it before going into anything half-cocked

Bad!

It is far better to enter the Japanese arts with absolutely no knowledge what so ever. Too many people think they know something, and tend to resist when the reality is different than their preconceptions. It is much better to just get to a dojo rather than to waste time looking at books. Contact those that are closest, and go see what they're about.

 

[socho]

I have a book called Iai The Art of Drawing the Sword (by Darrel Craig) is this a good resource... it seems very informative, and true to what I know of the spirit of the japanese sword, but again...

There is some good information in that book. Unfortunately, it is mostly pirated from other sources without attribution. The best way to use a book on swordsmanship is as a reminder or reference AFTER you learn something. The Japanese sword arts are not 'one size fits all', each has very individual and characteristic interpretations of movement and technique.
You are very fortunate to have the choices available in the Dallas area. Check them out, let us know what you decide.

Dave

 

[masterloki]

so... are you guys saying that I shouldn't read the book at all before going to the dojo? also what is the name of the top that is worn with the hakama?

 

[socho]

the training top is a gi. Can be keiko-gi or uwagi. And best to not get one before you join a group, as different schools have different requirements. Some like the heavy kendo jacket, some like a white top, some black. And there are other options, too. The formal ones are montsuki, worn with a juban. The big long ones, worn with or without hakama, are just men's kimono.
If you want to do some general reading on iai, Shimabukuro-sensei's "Flashing Steel" is a decent choice, IMO. Whatever you read, I would suggest looking at the history and general philosophy, the mindset, not the specific techniques. Best to not have any preconceptions, as Paul said.

Dave

 

[Charles Mahan]

so... are you guys saying that I shouldn't read the book at all before going to the dojo? also what is the name of the top that is worn with the hakama?

I understand the desire to have some idea what you're getting into before getting started, but reading is only going to give you a very superficial, and potentially misleading level of knowledge. The best way is to see what training is really like is to go to a class and watch. After watching a class, try a class. Talk to the instructor about what training is like during the typical year. Ask about the schools connection to other instructors and Japan. Ask about what seminars and competitions they compete in and what those events are like. Find out if the instructor and students typically go out to eat after one of the classes and see if you can tag along. You'll learn a lot more like this than you will from a book.

Nobody is going to give you the hard sell. So don't feel like you're going to be pressured into joining up if you just go to watch class. Nobody is getting rich teaching JSAs in DFW.