What is Kenpo Good For?

[Touch Of Death]

touch of death, i want to respond to your post but i am not sure i am understanding your point clearly. from my reading it seems like you are touching on a few different things. can you explain a little more for me?

doing the same action over and over is the best training for combat. in the military you train to reload your weapon under the stress of combat. you should be able to do this without looking and without having to think about it so the action gets ingrained or "hard wired" into your brain. actions need to become a reflex and the only way to achive this result is thru repitition. boxers must do thousands of reps of lead jab, right cross, left hook.

this gets into something i didnt bring up yet about assumptions. in combat poor assumptions will get you killed and most assumptions are poor.

timing is a vital component in fighting. it is a complex issue. the three basic components of an action are speed, power and timing. there are multiple facets of timing, im not sure what your trying to say here.

Timing is everything. It is anything and everything that can happen on a timeline. They even put cooking times, on our food products, to improve our timing.

 

[hoshin1600]

Wow are we going to revive this thread after 2 years? Lol

 

[Touch Of Death]

Wow are we going to revive this thread after 2 years? Lol

Yeah. I just read it and got excited, all over again.

 

[MaxRob]

Danjo,

Don't get me wrong. The self defense aspect of Kenpo is very important to me. I do believe that the system is effective. People need to realize that Kenpo is a contact activity. The techniques will work if the proper amount of force is applied. If someone is not being hit or hitting their training partners, they're kidding themselves. I am not advocating beating each other senseless, but, I have seen classes where advanced belts literally whined if they received a little bit of contact. How are these people gonna defend themselves if they can't take a shot in a sterile environment like the classroom?

Sadly, there are many Kenpo schools like that out there. We really are becoming the next McDojo system. I have been in schools that only worked in the air, not on a live body. Schools that professed to generate their chi into strikes that would totally incapacitate their opponet. I have been in Kenpo schools that didn't even teach a form of Kenpo of any kind.
I have been in Parker system schools that would make Ed Parker roll over in his grave. Slappy, fast movements, but no stances or power in the strikes. Why is everyone so concerned with speed above everything else?


I don't believe that Kenpo is outdated. It just needs to trained right.
This is my second time around in Kenpo. My first school's teacher was a good martial artist, he just didn't want to teach. But, he did want the money, though. There are a lot of teachers like that out there.

Dave

 

[MaxRob]

Danjo,

Don't get me wrong. The self defense aspect of Kenpo is very important to me. I do believe that the system is effective. People need to realize that Kenpo is a contact activity. The techniques will work if the proper amount of force is applied. If someone is not being hit or hitting their training partners, they're kidding themselves. I am not advocating beating each other senseless, but, I have seen classes where advanced belts literally whined if they received a little bit of contact. How are these people gonna defend themselves if they can't take a shot in a sterile environment like the classroom?

Sadly, there are many Kenpo schools like that out there. We really are becoming the next McDojo system. I have been in schools that only worked in the air, not on a live body. Schools that professed to generate their chi into strikes that would totally incapacitate their opponet. I have been in Kenpo schools that didn't even teach a form of Kenpo of any kind.
I have been in Parker system schools that would make Ed Parker roll over in his grave. Slappy, fast movements, but no stances or power in the strikes. Why is everyone so concerned with speed above everything else?


I don't believe that Kenpo is outdated. It just needs to trained right.
This is my second time around in Kenpo. My first school's teacher was a good martial artist, he just didn't want to teach. But, he did want the money, though. There are a lot of teachers like that out there.

Dave

I agree , in this sense several

 

[MaxRob]

Kenpo or kempokarate is v effective as self defense and it has my greatest respect.
With Sakhui Yohida, to James Mitose to William Chow and to Ed Parker
This art is amazing it is varied but very effective.
Also as Go-Shinjutsu ( ( law of the fist and art of of self defense) Chow; later Ed Parker ,Law of the fist and empty hand.)
It has over 700 distinct self defense tequniques
Every body part is a weapon in kenpokarate, every tequniques has variations and every varied technique is a weapon .
It is better to master 100 techniques 100 times than master one 1000 times.
kenpo is a a great art , teaches so much.
I agree to above if not taught in its highy effective form but in today s world where even he slightest contact can be disciplinary or even a legal issue many of our Self Defence Arts can be restricted.
Kenpo is one of the most interesting, and effective self defence arts, it is v difficult to master all it's moves, it is a base to other martial arts and I as a student respect it absolutely.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Kenpo or kempokarate is v effective as self defense and it has my greatest respect.
With Sakhui Yohida, to James Mitose to William Chow and to Ed Parker
This art is amazing it is varied but very effective.
Also as Go-Shinjutsu ( ( law of the fist and art of of self defense) Chow; later Ed Parker ,Law of the fist and empty hand.)
It has over 700 distinct self defense tequniques
Every body part is a weapon in kenpokarate, every tequniques has variations and every varied technique is a weapon .
It is better to master 100 techniques 100 times than master one 1000 times.
kenpo is a a great art , teaches so much.
I agree to above if not taught in its highy effective form but in today s world where even he slightest contact can be disciplinary or even a legal issue many of our Self Defence Arts can be restricted.
Kenpo is one of the most interesting, and effective self defence arts, it is v difficult to master all it's moves, it is a base to other martial arts and I as a student respect it absolutely.

Kenpo can be a zillion techs, or those zillion techs can be variations on about five or six ideas. It is much easier to learn if you categorize these techs into broader more generalized principles.

 

[MaxRob]

I agree absolutely

 

[MaxRob]

The issues are v situational . Thanks so much

 

[BUCKNAKEDBULLFROG]

Kenpo has its own kicks (for example, ushiro geri keage). But explosive, high kicks usually aren´t as practiced by kenpoists as by taekwondists.

I can´t imagine Joe Palanzo kicking as proficiently as Suska:

But surely Suska´s uchi waza combinations are nos as speed as those of Larry Tatum:

Excellent videos.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

well i studied kenpo karate and kenpo karate is an updated system based on modern day street fighting it applies logic and PRacticality Kenpo s very effective on the street and the technniques are idea not rules which can change depending upon circumstances who ever say that kenpo aint effective they wrong

 

[hoshin1600]

I guess this thread will never die,, kinda like a zombie.

well i studied kenpo karate and kenpo karate is an updated system based on modern day street fighting it applies logic and PRacticality Kenpo s very effective on the street and the technniques are idea not rules which can change depending upon circumstances who ever say that kenpo aint effective they wrong

I dont mind the system as much as I do the BS rhetoric and constant regurgitation of the same quotes over and over, ,,"it's modern" "it's scientific " "it's based on the western way of fighting "...
All kenpo is ,is a rehashed Frankenstein version of traditional Asian arts. There is nothing in kenpo you would not find in the various traditional martial arts that inspired kenpo.
There is nothing inherently wrong with a mix of different arts. But there is also nothing special or ingenious about kenpo. Kenpo is like a potato, kinda bland tasting but will fill your stomach if your hungry.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I guess this thread will never die,, kinda like a zombie.

I dont mind the system as much as I do the BS rhetoric and constant regurgitation of the same quotes over and over, ,,"it's modern" "it's scientific " "it's based on the western way of fighting "...
All kenpo is ,is a rehashed Frankenstein version of traditional Asian arts. There is nothing in kenpo you would not find in the various traditional martial arts that inspired kenpo.
There is nothing inherently wrong with a mix of different arts. But there is also nothing special or ingenious about kenpo. Kenpo is like a potato, kinda bland tasting but will fill your stomach if your hungry.

Don't forget, Deadly Killing Art. That's the milkshake that bring the boys to the yard.

 

[Tames D]

I guess this thread will never die,, kinda like a zombie.

I dont mind the system as much as I do the BS rhetoric and constant regurgitation of the same quotes over and over, ,,"it's modern" "it's scientific " "it's based on the western way of fighting "...
All kenpo is ,is a rehashed Frankenstein version of traditional Asian arts. There is nothing in kenpo you would not find in the various traditional martial arts that inspired kenpo.
There is nothing inherently wrong with a mix of different arts. But there is also nothing special or ingenious about kenpo. Kenpo is like a potato, kinda bland tasting but will fill your stomach if your hungry.

Careful... a good Kenpo guy will slap you silly

 

[Touch Of Death]

I guess this thread will never die,, kinda like a zombie.

I dont mind the system as much as I do the BS rhetoric and constant regurgitation of the same quotes over and over, ,,"it's modern" "it's scientific " "it's based on the western way of fighting "...
All kenpo is ,is a rehashed Frankenstein version of traditional Asian arts. There is nothing in kenpo you would not find in the various traditional martial arts that inspired kenpo.
There is nothing inherently wrong with a mix of different arts. But there is also nothing special or ingenious about kenpo. Kenpo is like a potato, kinda bland tasting but will fill your stomach if your hungry.

At a second reading, you have a flawed premise, nothing gets added that doesn't fit, in the timing mechanism you know as kenpo; so, it isn't exactly a Frankenstein. Other people, and so called masters have added some crazy stuff, but not the art, proper.

 

[Charlemagne]

I think that most people are too hung up on the fighting part of MA's.

Seriously? They are called "martial" arts for a reason. They are intended for fighting, or at least they were at some point. It isn't aerobics or ballet, nor or it a social club, and it wasn't intended to be. Is there as social aspect? Of course, and this can be a very good thing. Is there a fitness component? Not as often as their should be, but yes, and this is good as well. In addition, martial artists certainly should not go around looking for fights, but the preparation for a fight one cannot realistically avoid should be the driving aspect. Some people have been training for so long, or have bought into the hype of "fighting without fighting" (or whatever way they use to say the same thing), that they forget why the majority of people walk through the door to start training in the first place.

As for the rest of the thread, I've never trained Kenpo, so I cannot weigh in on the utility of the system, but I have trained enough different systems and been exposed to more, that what I can say is that some arts are effective at their original intent and some are not. Some may have been at one point but have gotten away from that through the years. Some arts could have utility, but the manner in which they are trained is not conducive to getting that result. With respect to Kenpo, I don't recall too many schools being marketed as a social club or merely as a place for personal growth. In the cases I can recall, they were marketed as a place to learn realistic self-defense skills.

Again, not having trained Kenpo, I suspect there are some who are training so that they can actually fight if they have to and some who are not. Those who are, are still seeing the social benefits and the aspects of personal growth and development, as those who are not training in the same way. These things are not mutually exclusive. But, they can also fight, which, in all probability, was the intent of the system in the first place.

 

[hoshin1600]

Careful... a good Kenpo guy will slap you......................... silly

i could always use a good laugh.

but seriously....
i find many things in kenpo that just are not for me. if others like the system great, but what i find interesting is the very reason i left kenpo was because to my eyes its methodologies did not match the science and logic of actual fighting but yet this is the rally cry and cheer i hear from kenpo guys on why kenpo is so great.
i often hear "well it depends on your instructor and the lineage" "our kenpo is not like those other systems of kenpo" but i see common traits that run though every version of the style. even the masters of kenpo exhibit these traits. to give the most common is the "dance of death" the endless combination of strikes and kicks to a non moving non responsive attacker. some may try to defend it and reason it out, they will find an argument in its favor. but it doesnt adhere to logic or fight science.

i will admit i have seen some youtube clips of kenpo that shows that kenpo has repurposed and reinvented itself and now looks like MMA. but if a style has abandoned its training methodologies and adopted the training of MMA then it makes it rather difficult to argue its still kenpo. it certainly would not be the art of Chow. Parker or Castro.

 

[Touch Of Death]

i could always use a good laugh.

but seriously....
i find many things in kenpo that just are not for me. if others like the system great, but what i find interesting is the very reason i left kenpo was because to my eyes its methodologies did not match the science and logic of actual fighting but yet this is the rally cry and cheer i hear from kenpo guys on why kenpo is so great.
i often hear "well it depends on your instructor and the lineage" "our kenpo is not like those other systems of kenpo" but i see common traits that run though every version of the style. even the masters of kenpo exhibit these traits. to give the most common is the "dance of death" the endless combination of strikes and kicks to a non moving non responsive attacker. some may try to defend it and reason it out, they will find an argument in its favor. but it doesnt adhere to logic or fight science.

i will admit i have seen some youtube clips of kenpo that shows that kenpo has repurposed and reinvented itself and now looks like MMA. but if a style has abandoned its training methodologies and adopted the training of MMA then it makes it rather difficult to argue its still kenpo. it certainly would not be the art of Chow. Parker or Castro.

Oh yeah, Parker would have sucked if people didn't accidently walk into his strikes.

 

[hoshin1600]

Oh yeah, Parker would have sucked if people didn't accidently walk into his strikes.

not sure if that is sarcasm.

 

[Flying Crane]

At a second reading, you have a flawed premise, nothing gets added that doesn't fit, in the timing mechanism you know as kenpo; so, it isn't exactly a Frankenstein. Other people, and so called masters have added some crazy stuff, but not the art, proper.

The art itself cannot do anything. The art itself cannot choose to add something.

I have seen some things added by some people, into their specific kenpo lineage, that absolutely does not fit and is inappropriate. I can't speak for all lineages, I only know what I experienced.