what I learned in MI CPL class (USCCA)

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Runs With Fire

Runs With Fire

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That depends what you compare to. A officer-size 1911, IRCC, only carries 6 in the mag. There are a number of small pistols that don't carry more. Granted a difference of 1 is a significant % here, but not a big number. To me, a snubnose 38 without an exposed hammer is not worse than a .380 with 6 rounds.

Of course, if we compare to a double-stack or full-size (even single-stack 1911), that's another matter, but the small pistols don't compare well, either.
All very true. my r51 only holds 7+1 9mm and I don't carry +1. But it is slimmer than a revolver.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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Not a big fan of revolvers. Matter of fact...I hate revolvers for self defense purposes.

For CC its hard to beat Glock.

A Glock 19 or Glock 23 they are just good all around guns. I worked undercover carrying a Glock 23 IWB for years. Loved it.

Also the Glock 43 is great small concealable 9mm.

The Glock 19 & 23 are almost the ideal concealed carry handgun's. Decent capacity, slim and that Glock functionality and dependability!
 

Brian R. VanCise

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In regards to revolver vs. semi auto handguns.

Folks, this is 2018 and you only need to look around the world and see what violence professionals are carrying. They carry almost exclusively semi auto's. Whether they are LEO's, Military, Security, etc. They do this for all the reasons CB indicated earlier. Semi Auto handguns are the superior technology at this time. Now, that does not mean that a revolver cannot fit your needs but it is hard to argue that it is a better tool than the modern semi auto.
 

Brian King

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In regards to revolver vs. semi auto handguns.
I have a student that has arthritis in both hands and wrists, when she carries it is a j-frame. It fits her hands and she shoots well with it. She has a very difficult time racking slides on most semi-auto's but has no problem pulling hammer or using DA.

Individual weapon choices can based on many conditions, experiences, and situations. If we think about it, even carrying a semi auto is a compromise as a battle rifle is better technology for hunting and self defense, yet for most, we daily carry handguns not long guns.

Find what works best for you, practice with it and do not worry so much what others are carrying or not carrying.

Regards
Brian King
 

Gerry Seymour

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In regards to revolver vs. semi auto handguns.
I have a student that has arthritis in both hands and wrists, when she carries it is a j-frame. It fits her hands and she shoots well with it. She has a very difficult time racking slides on most semi-auto's but has no problem pulling hammer or using DA.

Individual weapon choices can based on many conditions, experiences, and situations. If we think about it, even carrying a semi auto is a compromise as a battle rifle is better technology for hunting and self defense, yet for most, we daily carry handguns not long guns.

Find what works best for you, practice with it and do not worry so much what others are carrying or not carrying.

Regards
Brian King
When I had problems with my dominant thumb (dislocated during a friend's black belt testing), I found J-frames easier to handle than my Glock.
 
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Runs With Fire

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My mother is taking some basic handgun, marksman, and defensive pistol courses in preparation for her cpl. You go Mom! Her 56 year old arthritic thumbs can't compress a magazine spring after a couple rounds. If she uses a wheelgun for training, I advise her to carry the same. Familiarity is much more a factor than capacity alone.
 

Danny T

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Training and Practice! It really comes down to training and practice, practice, practice.
Proficiency with a semi auto takes more training and practice.
If one isn't going to get good training and spend time with dedicated practice a revolver is a better choice. Lower capacity and longer reloads but overall an easier tool to use. In my experience there are far more people who do not practice to become proficient under high stress and with clearing malfunctions than those who do and even less continue to practice to maintain such proficiency.
Doesn't mean they can't fire the weapon but doing so when relaxed and at paper targets only keeps one familiar. Recognizing the different malfunctions and being able to address them properly under high stress is a high level skill that only comes with good practice. If one isn't going to put in the practice then a revolver is my recommendation.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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If a revolver fits your needs then use it. It is older technology but that does not mean that it is not still useful. Personally, I almost exclusively carry a Glock 19 for concealed carry. It is almost perfect in that I can hide it on my frame and it does not print and it has a capacity of 10 + 1 and I can reload with another magazine quickly. However, there are times when I need to carry a pocket pistol and I almost always fall back to one of my revolvers at that point. I find that the revolver in the pocket hides well. Beyond that I usually utilize a revolver as a backup on my ankle. So I am certainly not anti-revolver. Yet, I recognize that it is older technology and that the modern semi-auto is superior for all the reasons CB mentioned above!
 

lklawson

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A couple things.
First: I learned that my Remington R51 isn't trusted by many gun experts.
To be honest, there's a ton of snobbery and "intellectual incest" among "gun experts." Most of their training material is good, but often they can be unaccepting and tend to look at things from a mindset which does not match their clients.

Here's a great discussion about the problem from two training experts I trust:

Dear Instructors, Get a Real Job (Podcast – Season 5, Ballistic Radio Episode 241, February 11th, 2018)

Second, I learned that the m&p shield is more popular than I realized( four of twelve participants had identical shields)
They're very popular.

My wife has little experience with firearms, especially my R51. The two didn't jive. I never thought much about it but nearly all her shooting experience (2,000-3,000 rnds plinking) was with a single action .22 revolver. Aside from not knowing how to control recoil during drills, she had a failure to feed do to not fully seating the magazine. She also had an issue with the grip safety. She wouldn't completely depress it and a failure to fire resulted. Then continue to fumble with clearing the action until an instructor stepped in. Happened a few times They let her know she was probably not fully engaging the safety.
I kinda blew that one, sorry Honey.
No, you didn't blow that one. The instructor did. The instructor needs to teach a firm grip and should have taught and verified it before the range. I own an R51, it's actually my favorite CC. The grip safety isn't that hard to depress. If she isn't gripping it hard enough to depress the grip safety, then she doesn't have a solid grip on the gun and, in fact, her grip is so loose that it is dangerous to her. Not your fail, the instructor's fail.

I had a dud round but no other trouble with the R51. I did realize that I dislike the grip safety after my wife's dismal familiarity. I have had trouble with it a time or two myself. Got me thinking, how many times have I drawn a bead on rabbits or ducks only to pull the trigger three or four times before realizing I forgot to hit the safety? I see an external safetey-less compact handgun in the near future.
This is a known training issue with manual safety pistols. It happens more than you might think. Much like other martial arts, drawing and employing a gun needs to be trained. "Forgetting" to sweep the safety off is pretty similar to someone throwing a punch with their elbows and leading with their pinky. It's an incorrect habit which can be easily resolved with proper training and sufficient practice.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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lklawson

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The advantage I see is reliability. There are fewer things to fail. The grip safety won't fail, the trigger safety won't fail, my thumb won't slip and put the safety on, it doesn't matter if I limp wrist a shot, it won't fail to feed the next round, it won't jam, I don't need to worry if I forgot to clean and lube it right, if I have a bad round of ammo I just pull the thingy again.
Nope. Revolvers are actually more complex machines. Often they are 20-40% more complex. I've had wheelies go down and "jam" on me. When a wheelie jams, you can't tap-rack-bang them. They're just DOWN. Just like the old black-and-white Superman TV serial, just throw the gun at the target because you're not going to be getting it back into the fight. Better off with a New York Reload.

Revolvers Are More Reliable

That said, I like revolvers.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

lklawson

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The Glock 19 & 23 are almost the ideal concealed carry handgun's.
For you maybe. For others they may not fit their hands, their clothing, or other aspects of their life. Glocks are fine, but they're not the only thing nor is the 19 necessarily the perfect size.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

lklawson

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In regards to revolver vs. semi auto handguns.

Folks, this is 2018 and you only need to look around the world and see what violence professionals are carrying. They carry almost exclusively semi auto's. Whether they are LEO's, Military, Security, etc. They do this for all the reasons CB indicated earlier. Semi Auto handguns are the superior technology at this time. Now, that does not mean that a revolver cannot fit your needs but it is hard to argue that it is a better tool than the modern semi auto.
Still plenty of pros carrying wheelies. Turns out that a snubby is easier to CC than many semi-auto guys give them credit for. The round-ish design gives them an organic look which hides pretty well.

One revolver expert I was listening to said something interesting: "Revolvers are the easiest guns to shoot but the hardest guns to shoot well."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

Brian R. VanCise

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Actually no, Lklawson,

The Glock 19 is a 10 cartridge magazine with a +1 in the chamber.

The glock is so well received and with the newer generations allowing you to modify the grip it will work well for pretty much anyone. Fantastic design with fantastic reliability.
 

Tames D

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My choice of conceal carry is my Glock 27. I have a Glock19 but the 27 is a better it for me.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Actually no, Lklawson,

The Glock 19 is a 10 cartridge magazine with a +1 in the chamber.

The glock is so well received and with the newer generations allowing you to modify the grip it will work well for pretty much anyone. Fantastic design with fantastic reliability.
There are 10-round and 15-round magazines available from Glock for the G19. 10 and 13 for the 23. I think they both currently ship with 10-round mags, but I may be mistaken.
 

CB Jones

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There are 10-round and 15-round magazines available from Glock for the G19. 10 and 13 for the 23. I think they both currently ship with 10-round mags, but I may be mistaken.

They will accept any double stack Glock 9 mm magazine that hold 10 rounds or more but they come with 10 round mags.
 

Gerry Seymour

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They will accept any double stack Glock 9 mm magazine that hold 10 rounds or more but they come with 10 round mags.
I knew they'd take any for their caliber - Glock actually makes a 15-round specifically for it. The 10-round is a single stack in a double-stack mag. The 15-round was the original mag (pre Clinton-era legislation), and used to ship with the 19.
 

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