What exactly is atheism? (offshoot of same sex thread)

[jezr74]

While I don't think its relevant, things like this just take one person to link it too a ideology and people will follow and jump on the wagon . I didn't mention in my first post, but I thought the cross was more about putting something against Islam, and found that very disappointing, but didn't want to assume.

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[ballen0351]

It's part of the story. It's odd to an atheist that the take-away message from nearly 3000 religious-inspired deaths is "God cares" (in the form of crossed bars), but so be it.

I guess it could have been much much worse that day. I believe at normal capasity around 50 thousand people worked in the buildings of the towers total so only 3000 deaths is kinda good of you can have a good in that situation

 

[DennisBreene]

CC said: "I personally feel that spirituality is a uniquely personal journey that one must take on their own and those that try to push their religious agenda (be it in favour of a God or against) are merely attempting to seek justification for their beliefs."

I concur. I have no problem with anyone having spiritual beliefs that, in the end for most faiths, boil down to "Be nice to each other". When it gets to "Except for those over there because they don't believe the same as us" I have a problem but for most ordinary people that is not the situation that ever arises. My objections lie in the actions of the hierarchies in control of the power of organised religions rather than with the individuals who hold faith.

For decades I was an agnostic, willing to be swayed either way on the God(s) Question if a good argument or, lord above {}, some proof came along. These days I classify myself as atheist, having had enough of the origin of the universe and of life explained rationally for me not to require a 'God of the Gaps' to fill in where reason and experimentation have not yet reached. Similarly, again with the "for me" proviso, I do not have a need for a religion or a deity to encourage and enforce my innate drive to be morally 'good' rather than 'evil'.

So, what I 'believe in' as an atheist would not be all that distinguishable from what some other (hopefully) essentially good person believes who also happens to believe in a creator deity. Mankind is capable of both great compassion and great vileness, great creativity and great destruction, nobility and baseness are within most of us simultaneously and which holds sway over a person is a matter of conscience, empathy and self-awareness.

Very well stated. I would add that while science has not proved the existence of God, it cannot disprove it either. I believe that any entity that would qualify as fitting the general criteria of a deity must be far beyond human capacity to understand it's true nature. While I have yet to be convinced of the existence of such a being, I am comfortable with the notion that it is an unanswered question not a disproved concept. I may well get the answer on the day I die. In the meantime, I live my life with the moral code as instilled by my parents, the church I was raised in, and society in general. I consider myself agnostic (not knowing), not amoral.

 

[jezr74]

Very well stated. I would add that while science has not proved the existence of God, it cannot disprove it either. I believe that any entity that would qualify as fitting the general criteria of a deity must be far beyond human capacity to understand it's true nature. While I have yet to be convinced of the existence of such a being, I am comfortable with the notion that it is an unanswered question not a disproved concept. I may well get the answer on the day I die. In the meantime, I live my life with the moral code as instilled by my parents, the church I was raised in, and society in general. I consider myself agnostic (not knowing), not amoral.

It can be tested though, some religions and faiths actually make claims that can, and are tested on a irregular basis. People make a choice as to if they want to ignore it, or learn from if. When people say there is no evident, they are also saying they choose to ignore all the compelling information that supports it as well.

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[Carol]

Images associated with violent death were everywhere you looked in lower Manhattan. Whether it was the National Guard set up in Battery Park, the two Coast Guard cutters patrolling NY harbor, taking turns guarding the Statue of Liberty......or, the most horrific and inescapable of all....the smell. That ****ing smell. There was no escaping it.

There are folks think about religion when faced with the realities of death, even those who aren't very active in their faith. I don't think at the time that the iron cross or the priest were turning the opportunity in a us-vs-them environment. That may have changed in the years following, but I think the main interest for the cross in the museum is due to its discovery at ground zero and not its follow-up role as a possible political football.

I dunno, there may be irony there, but the article sure made it sound like the Atheist org was going me-too-me-too over the use of iconic symbols, and not creating commentary over the irony. Doesn't sound like quite the time or place for a protest as Jezr says, but neither is it the time nor the place for a victory celebration.

 

[crushing]

If you put “religion” aside and simply look at the teachings of people like Jesus or Buddha, it’s hard to disagree that we wouldn’t be better off as a people if their examples were followed. Which kind of brings up the question, “From where do atheists derive their moral character?”

Maybe from a place more humanistic than supernatural?

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jun/29/al-westerfield-atheists-victims-of-hypocrisy-by/

 

[arnisador]

Philosophy, or just the basic innate tribal conventions we share with other primates.

 

[jezr74]

Philosophy, or just the basic innate tribal conventions we share with other primates.

And common sense. You see more promotion for human rights, and moving humanity forward from non-religious groups.

In my opinion morals/ethics is not very compatible with religion, and holds back improving humanity as a whole.


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