What Does Humility Have to Do with Taekwondo?

[Tez3]

No, It is just difficult for me to explain ideas.

Plus, it was just an Idea based off of the definition of arrogance "having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities."

Specifically the "exaggerated sense " part. It just came to my mind that you can exaggerate yourself in a negative or positive way. Thus, you are arrogant about what you can really do, or the skill you have.

Ah, it wouldn't be 'arrogant', you would be 'overstating' your inability to do things. 'Arrogance' is very specific and describes 'conceit' or 'self importance', you can't use it to describe it's opposite... 'timidity' or 'meekness'. Overstating your inabilities is 'false modesty'.

I am good at English and words, I can write you a book if you'd like but dear me never ask me to do arithmetic or heaven forbid maths, absolutely terrible, can't even add without a calculator, I have number 'blindness' so forgive me if I correct your English, I'm not being nasty just doing the bit I can do!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes, of course, but, if you're running the school, teaching all (most) of the classes, you need to develop one, hopefully several, of the students to be better Martial Artists/fighters/whatever than you.

I'm not sure toughest is the right word.

Agreed. I'm always the best in my classes right now. I'd love for that to not be the case in 10 years.

 

[Martial_Kumite]

Ah, it wouldn't be 'arrogant', you would be 'overstating' your inability to do things. 'Arrogance' is very specific and describes 'conceit' or 'self importance', you can't use it to describe it's opposite... 'timidity' or 'meekness'. Overstating your inabilities is 'false modesty'.

I am good at English and words, I can write you a book if you'd like but dear me never ask me to do arithmetic or heaven forbid maths, absolutely terrible, can't even add without a calculator, I have number 'blindness' so forgive me if I correct your English, I'm not being nasty just doing the bit I can do!

Np. To be honest, it is a little hard to find the right words when you are falling asleep as your typing. I woke up a few hours later, re-read the discussion and kind of confused myself before remembering what I was trying to say.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Np. To be honest, it is a little hard to find the right words when you are falling asleep as your typing. I woke up a few hours later, re-read the discussion and kind of confused myself before remembering what I was trying to say.

I can understand that. I'm not saying I've ever actually done that - not me, no way! - but I can understand.

 

[Tez3]

Np. To be honest, it is a little hard to find the right words when you are falling asleep as your typing. I woke up a few hours later, re-read the discussion and kind of confused myself before remembering what I was trying to say.

Oh bless you! At least you have an excuse, I've got to that age where I go into a room and promptly forget what I came in for!

 

[Martial_Kumite]

Oh bless you! At least you have an excuse, I've got to that age where I go into a room and promptly forget what I came in for!

Same, then I would remember, go back in,and then lose it again.

 

[Martial_Kumite]

What experience have others had with humility?

Anyway, to try to get this back on topic, I want to give an experience one of my instructors had. She was a 2nd or 3rd degree at the time ( I can not remember precisely) and was at a dan testing with a retreat at the end for those who were interested. Well, my instructor was there and watched the testing. After the tests, a new dan came up to her and told her to do push-ups, because he thought he was the higher rank. Well, once she informed him of her rank, he got chewed out a little bit. Bet it humbled that guy a little bit, dot you think.

 

[TrueJim]

...After the tests, a new dan came up to her and told her to do push-ups, because he thought he was the higher rank...

I don't think I understand this story. The new dan thought that if he sees anybody's who's lower rank, he can randomly give that person commands? Like...will they paint his living room if he tells them? Cuz that would be handy!

 

[Martial_Kumite]

I don't think I understand this story. The new dan thought that if he sees anybody's who's lower rank, he can randomly give that person commands? Like...will they paint his living room if he tells them? Cuz that would be handy!

I was paraphrasing for time sake. Bacicly, The guy let his new rank get to his head and began thinking he was top dog and started mouthing off. Then karma came and bit him on the a--. And, He was just a jerk.

Also, My instructor is quite short. It made her look like she was around a brown or new red belt. Looks were quite deceiving in this case.

 

[Steve]

The distinction between confidence and arrogance is, I think, very subjective. I think when you agree with someone or like someone, they are confident. When you disagree with someone or dislike them, confidence is arrogant.

 

[TrueJim]

I was paraphrasing for time sake...

That's a pity, because my living room really does need a new coat of paint, and I know some bo-dans that are good with a roller.

 

[TKDFromDMV_Student]

Humility is strength under control, and Tae Kwon Do has been one of the things that tested my humility. It taught me to control my power, and be light on my feet. At the same time, it encouraged me to submit to my masters and elders, and help other students who need help. Humility also taught me not to think of myself more highly than I really am, because life for everyone here on this earth is a learning process, and it's not about striving to be all that, it's all about being faithful with what you have and using that to work hard. That's all I can describe for now.

 

[Tez3]

At the same time, it encouraged me to submit to my masters and elders,

That has a ring about it that makes me bristle but before I do perhaps you could tell us what you mean by 'submit'. I don't believe anyone should submit to any other. If you mean 'listen' or 'be advised by' then I'd agree but 'submit' has too many overtones to be comfortable.

 

[TrueJim]

...I don't believe anyone should submit to any other. If you mean 'listen' or 'be advised by' then I'd agree but 'submit' has too many overtones to be comfortable.

When of the things I've learned in the corporate world (and many people often reiterate this, so it's not like this is my own observation) -- when you find somebody who thinks very differently from you, comes to completely different conclusions than you come to, and yet they are very smart -- keep those people close, and listen to them a lot. When you're in a fight, you want somebody back-to-back with you, not facing in the same direction as you.

Our kwanjangnim has a lot of ideas that just sound crazy to me, and yet he's run an extremely successful dojang for quite a long time -- so I assume he knows what he's doing. In that sense, I do find myself "submitting" a lot -- going full-steam along with ideas that I don't necessarily agree with. In the process though, I've learned a lot.

Back to the humility topic: I know that I'm smarter, wiser, stronger, faster and (especially) sexier than literally everybody on the planet, especially you guys. To me, humility is about knowing that none of those things matters one whit. The fact that a person is lucky enough to have any or all of these strengths means nothing -- it's only what you choose to do with your strengths that has any meaning. "The meaning of life? Life doesn't have a meaning. We give life its meaning through our actions."

 

[Tez3]

Our kwanjangnim has a lot of ideas that just sound crazy to me, and yet he's run an extremely successful dojang for quite a long time -- so I assume he knows what he's doing. In that sense, I do find myself "submitting" a lot -- going full-steam along with ideas that I don't necessarily agree with. In the process though, I've learned a lot.

That's not submitting as such though, that's going along with the ideas of someone you trust. submitting would be going along with ideas regardless of your own moral code, your beliefs and your own common sense. Submitting to someone means giving them power over you, is that wise?

Definition of submit from Cambridge Dictionary "to allow another person or group to have power or authority over you, or to accept something unwillingly: "

 

[TKDFromDMV_Student]

Submitting to someone means giving them power over you, is that wise?

Definition of submit from Cambridge Dictionary "to allow another person or group to have power or authority over you, or to accept something unwillingly: "

It's not the submission that I'm talking about. I'm referring to student-to-teacher submission.

 

[Tez3]

It's not the submission that I'm talking about. I'm referring to student-to-teacher submission.

How is that different, it's still submission. It's why in MMA you win by 'submission' when your opponent taps out because they have no choice because of the position you have put them into.
Teachers should not ask their students to submit to them, they can submit essays but not their person.

 

[Martial_Kumite]

have no choice because of the position you have put them into.

Well..... They still have a choice. They can choose to tap out, or be snap, crackle, and/or popped

 

[Tez3]

Well..... They still have a choice. They can choose to tap out, or be snap, crackle, and/or popped

True but it's Hobson's choice.

 

[Earl Weiss]

That's not submitting as such though, that's going along with the ideas of someone you trust. submitting would be going along with ideas regardless of your own moral code, your beliefs and your own common sense. Submitting to someone means giving them power over you, is that wise?

Definition of submit from Cambridge Dictionary "to allow another person or group to have power or authority over you, or to accept something unwillingly: "

Other dictionary definition without the unwilling acceptance:


verb (used with object), submitted, submitting.
1.
to give over or yield to the power or authority of another (often usedreflexively).
2.
to subject to some kind of treatment or influence.
3.
to present for the approval, consideration, or decision of another orothers:
to submit a plan; to submit an application.
4.
to state or urge with deference; suggest or propose (usually followedby a clause):
I submit that full proof should be required.
verb (used without object), submitted, submitting.
5.
to yield oneself to the power or authority of another:
to submit to a conqueror.
6.
to allow oneself to be subjected to some kind of treatment:
to submit to chemotherapy.
7.
to defer to another's judgment, opinion, decision, etc.:
I submit to your superior judgment.

Point being that you take on faith that someone knows more than you and even though you do not know or understand their rationale or think what they are doing is wise or correct you may choose to accept it with the thought that the wisdom may be revealed at some future date. (Been there).