What do you think of this "Flow" / training process?

Discussion in 'Members in Motion' started by Matt Bryers, May 17, 2018.

  1. Matt Bryers

    Matt Bryers Orange Belt

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    This is by far my favorite forum ever for Martial Arts. It is a great pleasure talking with and engaging passionate martial artists. I put a lot of our videos on our YouTube channel (see signature).

    But since you all the truly dedicated martial artists, I would love your opinion on some of the training we do.

    We documented our class process the other day, and would love your feedback.

    Osss.


     
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  2. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Sequencing. Working different flows from position to position. Learning the sequence and maintaining good fundamentals.

    There is the need for Drilling with ever increasing resistance and countering, and then free drilling (responding to whatever is given).
    The biggest concern I have is on the terminology of self defense. Many of the takedowns and finishing positions you are actually putting yourself are excellent for competitions but not so much for street wise especially when the possibility of having multiple opponents.
     
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  3. Martial D

    Martial D Master of Arts

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    Lots of heavy contact and matwork. I like it. A lot of those arm throws are super low percentage novelty items but still cool to know.

    What is the style background here?
     
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  4. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    I like your clip. It's very realistic.

    There are 2 different ways to train.

    1. Self defense - Your opponent attacks. You respond to it.
    2. Sport fight - You attack. Your opponent responds. You then respond to his respond.

    IMO, 2 > 1. The reason is simple. You don't have any dependency.
     
  5. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I'm not a fan of sequence training in the context of if you do A then B will be open and you can follow up with C, and then do D. I've tried this in my own system and my experience has been that when I do A, B rarely becomes open in a way that I can follow up with C. Sometimes when you hit someone in the head, they don't go in a direction that will allow you to continue the sequence.

    The only times the sequence training has worked for me is when one technique is done to set up another. In other words, I have to do A in order to B. B doesn't happen unless I do A. It's like a package deal.

    With that said, sequence training is still valuable as it helps your body to know what it can do if it finds itself in a certain position. A sequence of 1, 2, 3 can be trained, but in a real fighting the sequence may be 2 or 2 and 3, or just 3.

    The reality of it all is that you'll never grasp the reality of a sequence until you actually try to pull it off in free sparring. Some things will work and other things won't, as trained in the sequence.
     
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  6. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    Looks good, it's nice when you get to a certain level in your training where you can explore and experiment.
     
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  7. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    I liked it a lot, Matt. What you guys do, you do well. I love being in a small group and experimenting the heck out of things. It's so much fun and it almost like dessert after everything else. Just one of those things that makes the dojo like a second home.

    Makes me want to watch more of your vids, which I know are there. Makes me want to do some Russians, too, which I haven't done in a long while. :)

    Keep it up, bro.
     
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  8. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    It looks like a fun way to experiment. Of course, you would want to validate the sequence in sparring before teaching it in a regular class.

    That said, going to the sacrifice throws off of the Russian seems inefficient and unnecessarily risky for a street self defense scenario. Probably for a MMA context too, although I'm open to being persuaded with some empirical evidence.
     
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  9. Matt Bryers

    Matt Bryers Orange Belt

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    Sparring is an ABSOLUTE MUST!! We spar every class. Here's an example class of training / sparring:


    In regards to the Yoko Wakare (Jap Wizard), it gets "boring" doing the same old basic throws / techniques. We believe in adding creativity at the higher levels. Of course all the new students (white to blue belt) focus on the essential "boring" throws, while the more advanced guys get to play with other applications.

    Our philosophy is that by the time you reach blue belt, you SHOULD be able to "fight" anywhere. After blue belt, it becomes more about exploration, refinement, and developing a broader martial arts skill-set.

    Also - in regards to the sacrifice throw, I don't know if this video is staged or real, but I thought it was cool (use of Yoko Wakare) in a fight:
     
  10. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Save your knees. If you are going to target the thigh with that low kick then use a heavy bag to kick. If you still want to actually target the thigh then you'll need to take a deeper stance where the knees are closer but not at a 90 degree angle. The knee should point at the kick so that the kick doesn't land on the side. This is actually the defense against this type of kick. People think the low kung fu stances are just for show or conditioning. But this is the real world application of a low stance. I think you will be satisfied with this both in application and safety.
     
  11. Matt Bryers

    Matt Bryers Orange Belt

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    They work on heavy bags and kick shields, but we use the body all the time to understand where to strike. It's the technical application, then the power application. We've had no injuries during the training, students respect each other, and recognize that it's training time, not blow out each other's knees.

    In regards to the defenses, yes that's the defense we use, but the flow above was not going over defenses.
     
  12. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    The reason I mentioned is because me of the pad holders seem to have some uncertainty of how to hold the pads for that kick. I train that kick all the time and some of the pad holders reminded me of what I saw in my school when students were uncertain about how to hold the pads. Just a suggestion. If one student is training good offense the the other student can work on training good defense. just an option. It's your school and your students. So I know you will do as you see fit.

    Didn't want you to think I was trying to say do things one way vs another.
     
  13. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    My issue is that the drill is increadably optimistic. So you go from. If I win here what would I do next. If I win there what comes after that.

    And I don't think that is how a fight works.

    I think it is more. If I loose here. How do I recover.
     
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  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah. I lean towards conservative in self defence.
     
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  15. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I think I saw an example of this in the last video of him showing the low kick. The technique that was used was like a push that used the body. Sort of like if you get in too close and you don't want to be grabbed. Just give your opponent a hard bump and it will get you out of a bad situation. This is something I've done before, but It's something that I would probably do if I know my opponent is a striker. I can't say that I would do the same thing if my opponent is a grappler.

    I can bump strikers off of me all day long, but I've never tested my ability to see if it works against a grappler. It's a technique that requires good timing, bump too late and you'll pay a big price. There's more room for error with strikers with minimal grappling skills. Just thinking about my brother and his wrestling skills, I don't think it will be as effective since he does similar things when he used to wrestle competitively.
     
  16. dvcochran

    dvcochran 2nd Black Belt

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    I am a fan of sequence training where the focus is more "if" X attacking member is presented "then" XXX techniques will work. Then put into application.
     
  17. marques

    marques Master Black Belt

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    I agree with it.

    Then I tried “defend the way you want, make your own thing” with beginners and they just got puzzled... :)

    Sequences are great if undestood as part of the process of exploring possibilities and exploring human body weaknesses. Then we can build our system inside the system.
     
  18. FriedRice

    FriedRice Master Black Belt

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    Those are some niceass throws. I used to do a lot of that in Dazan Ryu Jujutsu.
     

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